Malyasia's Mystery Plover - "White-faced Plover"

[admin]

We're very excited to announce David Bakewell and Peter Kennerley's new article "Malyasia's Mystery Plover" (http://www.surfbirds.com/Features/plovers1108/malayplovers.html). Is it possible that a small plover, not described or illustrated in any modern literature or field guide occurs in southeast Asia? Packed with informative photographs, David and Peter explore the possible identity of a small plover in Asia.

Please post your feedback here and reply to this thread and if we have any readers in Asia who might have photos to add to the discussion, please add them to this thread too.

David and Peter are currently travelling but we look forward to your thoughts.
________
uhwh warehouse (http://uhwh.com/)

[Bobolink44]

fascinating read - not every day you hear of a new species and looks like this one has been lurking under everyone's noses. kudos to authors on some very painstaking research and having the courage to stand up and publish this - now what needs to be done about conversation - it must be a rare bird no?

[Dave B]

fascinating read - not every day you hear of a new species and looks like this one has been lurking under everyone's noses. kudos to authors on some very painstaking research and having the courage to stand up and publish this - now what needs to be done about conversation - it must be a rare bird no?

Yes, rare, and threatened. I've just heard that the site where they were being seen in Vietnam has been destroyed. It makes catching them and getting DNA analysis done a top priority.

[AndyB]

Hi Dave, great article. Any idea of how many pairs might be out there and if BirdLife International will be stepping in to make sure this bird doesn't go extinct right after it's been discovered?

[Dave B]

Hi Dave, great article. Any idea of how many pairs might be out there and if BirdLife International will be stepping in to make sure this bird doesn't go extinct right after it's been discovered?

Hi Andy,

I think it's still too early to come up with population estimates, but chances are that the population is small, otherwise they would surely have been noticed before now. The max seen at one time remains only 12 birds.

Peter and I will be talking about next steps with regard to conservation measures in the coming weeks.

[Brian S]

Dave

I think the article is brilliant, with just the right balance reached. Looking at the photos, and having been with Peter at Tring checking the specimens, it is hard to imagine it as a subspecies of KP. The clear structural and plumage differences clearly hint at it being a different species, but DNA would obviously be the priority in confirming this - if there is DNA available for the other species around it, for comparison, that is.

Brian small

[forktail]

Hey

I think most of us expected the next dozen new species to come from Asia to be as a result of its vastly overlumped avifauna. This came as a real suprise. Amazing observations Dave. Makes you wonder what else we might have missed... and indeed if some of us might not have seen a few of these without being observant enough to realise it.

Dave, have you considered an article for Birding Asia or Forktail? PM me if you want more details (although you may have been contacted already!) There was a fantastic article in Birding World a while back about the overlumped taxa of Asia. There are LOTS of new birds coming, the only sticking point is people having time to do the studies and write the papers!

Again, well done Dave. Very impressive.

[Dave B]

[QUOTE=forktail;2938]
PM me if you want more details (although you may have been contacted already!) QUOTE]

Hi Forktail,

Be glad to if I knew how! Alternatively, you could email me at the address given at the end of the article.

Thanks,

Dave

[AndyB]

Hi Dave and anyone else who wants to know how to PM (private message) another member, just click on their username (username is big blue and underlined to left of their post) and click "send a private message"

To access private messages other members may have sent you, look for the link under your name on the top right of the page. It says "welcome, your name"

You can set it up so that you get an email whenever anyone sends you a private message and change any other preferences such as signature etc by clicking on the "User CP" link in the blue bar above. Best, Andy

[admin]

I see Peter Ericsson has posted a photo on World Rarities Gallery (http://www.surfbirds.com/cgi-bin/gallery/display.cgi?gallery=gallery16)...link and details below

'White-faced Plover", Thailand, Lampakbia 13 Jan08 ? Peter Ericsson (http://www.surfbirds.com/media/gallery_photos/20080113075915.jpg)
the 'White-faced Plover' as described on Surfbirds......from the birding hot spot of Lampakbia,Thailand
________
Yamaha DSP-1 (http://www.yamaha-tech.com/wiki/Yamaha_DSP-1)

[Bobolink44]

Certainly looks like the photos from the article. So does anyone know if Lampakbia in Thailand is the best place to see these birds? I also found these photos from same location from this winter (http://www.pbase.com/carljohansvensson/malaysian_plover). Not sure if Dave B is checking this thread much but wondering if more photos or more wintering sites are being unearthed.

[AndyB]

More plover photos posted in World Birding (http://www.surfbirds.com/cgi-bin/gallery/display.cgi?gallery=gallery25) from Lampakbia Jan '08 by Peter Ericsson

http://www.surfbirds.com/media/gallery_photos/20080130100853.jpg
'White-faced Plover', Thailand, Lampakbia, Petburi 28Jan08 © Peter Ericsson
http://pbase.com/peterericsson


Any other Surfbirds readers been there this winter?

[Nathan Kipling]

I was thinking to have been overlooked for so long it would have to look a lot more similar than it does to a kentish which is the closest thing, there's no trace of the pronounced black eyestripe so white-faced's certainly descriptive!

[Alex Lees]

Hi Dave

Congratulations on the discovery of this apparent cryptic Charadriid - C. albifacies? (!). Have any plans been made to collect a type series? and/or mistnet these individuals to obtain tissue and feather samples - then that's two birds with one stone: a genetic profile to dispel any nagging doubts on what these are and the opportunity to peform stable isotope analysis and hence work out where they're coming from. Maybe the specimen(s) might eventually be deposited at the planned Malaysian Natural History Museum (http://www.undp.org.my/index.php?navi_id=361).

Alex

[Peter Kennerley]

We would just like to thank everyone who has sent us details of their sightings of these plovers since our article appeared. From the photographs received we know that they are occurring at sites in Vietnam and Thailand, as well as Malaysia, but no reports as yet from Singapore this winter.

It is coming up to the time when these birds should be leaving the wintering sites, so if you now should come across one lurking out there, we would be really pleased to hear about it.

A paper detailing these birds is in preparation and should be published later this year.

[macrourus]

But please do not collect any bird before we all know the true status of it...if its too rare or not. OK for mist-netting and bllod/feathers/tissue samples...that really enough to obtain mtDNA etc. etc.

Cheers
Compliments and thanks for sharing
________
VOLCANO VAPORIZERS (http://volcanovaporizer.net/)

[Dave B]

Thanks Bobolink,

I hadn't checked this thread recently, but have now! We were aware of these photos but thanks for posting them, as we might not have been.

Alex, we have been and will continue to try to trap these birds to obtain blood and feather samples for DNA analysis. We are opting against obtaining a specimen in view of the apparent scarcity of the birds (following the precedent set in the Bugun Liocichla case).

Lam Pak Bia seems to have at least one male this 'winter'. The Penang site currently has six birds at last count.

As Peter writes, a further paper is in prep.

Dave

[Alex Lees]

Hi Dave

Great to hear that you are persisting with attempts to get some genetic data. With regard to collecting ethics, do you think that these birds are genuinely rare? I don't know much about the geography of SE Asia: i.e. how much suitable littoral substrate there is for 'shore' plovers, but if they are now known to occur in Vietnam, Thailand and Malaysia then maybe they are commoner and more widespread than you suspect?

From my own personal experience most researchers sit on their discoveries of new taxa until publication in a peer-reviewed journal. I think it is highly commendable to alert the ornithological community in the manner that you guys have done. This will permit acqusition of more data and ensure that the final result (the paper) is more robust and that the species' conservation needs can be met faster.

cheers

Alex

[Dave B]

Hi Dave

Great to hear that you are persisting with attempts to get some genetic data. With regard to collecting ethics, do you think that these birds are genuinely rare? I don't know much about the geography of SE Asia: i.e. how much suitable littoral substrate there is for 'shore' plovers, but if they are now known to occur in Vietnam, Thailand and Malaysia then maybe they are commoner and more widespread than you suspect?

From my own personal experience most researchers sit on their discoveries of new taxa until publication in a peer-reviewed journal. I think it is highly commendable to alert the ornithological community in the manner that you guys have done. This will permit acqusition of more data and ensure that the final result (the paper) is more robust and that the species' conservation needs can be met faster.

cheers

Alex

Hi Alex,

Two factors make us continue to believe these birds are rather rare; one is the overall decline in both coastal wetlands and shorebird populations in the region (as demonstrated by e.g. Asian Waterbird Census data); the other is that despite more widespread reports having emerged since the article was published, all records that have so far come to light involve small numbers - fewer than 10 individuals in each case.

With regard to your second point, we certainly hope that the outcomes you mention as a result of choosing this route will be the case. It was clear to us from the outset that understanding the taxonomy and conservation requirements of these birds would require a broader-based effort than the two of us alone could accomplish.

[Alex Lees]

Hi Alex,

Two factors make us continue to believe these birds are rather rare; one is the overall decline in both coastal wetlands and shorebird populations in the region (as demonstrated by e.g. Asian Waterbird Census data); the other is that despite more widespread reports having emerged since the article was published, all records that have so far come to light involve small numbers - fewer than 10 individuals in each case.

With regard to your second point, we certainly hope that the outcomes you mention as a result of choosing this route will be the case. It was clear to us from the outset that understanding the taxonomy and conservation requirements of these birds would require a broader-based effort than the two of us alone could accomplish.

Hi Dave

Sounds like fairly sound reasoning. Have you looked for skins in any museums? I will be visiting Tring in the next couple of weeks anyway, so can have a rummage round if you guys haven't done already....

cheers

Alex

[Dave B]

Hi Dave

Sounds like fairly sound reasoning. Have you looked for skins in any museums? I will be visiting Tring in the next couple of weeks anyway, so can have a rummage round if you guys haven't done already....

cheers

Alex

I've just uploaded some recent (not very good) pics on my blog, here:

http://digdeep1962.blogspot.com/

Dave

[AndyB]

Your blog has some terrific photos Dave (not just of the plovers).

[Brian S]

Mark Andrews has recently posted some more images of 'White-washed' Plover on World Rarities gallery with the interesting behavioural comment: “This bird owns the beach. The feeding behaviour with outstretched neck and lowered head reminiscent of the larger sandplovers is distinctive. It is indeed a crab killer! A stunning bird...”

http://surfbirds.com/cgi-bin/gallery/display.cgi?gallery=gallery16&start=13

Brian S

[AndyB]

Links to Mark's photos:
http://surfbirds.com/media/gallery_photos/20080214114334.jpg
http://surfbirds.com/media/gallery_photos/20080214114108.jpg

but check out the gallery in Brian's link above as there are some lovely albatross shots by James Lowen and also Mark's photo of Spoon-billed Sandpiper on same day as plovers.

[BIJ]

23-05-11: I have been based in Shenzhen, Guangdong since the end of January. I have been visiting a birdwatching site at Dahu, Haifeng about 2.5 hours east of Shenzhen, every W/E. On Saturday I went to a new location which borders the Dahu beach area but separated by about 500ms of an estuary. I started walking along the beach heading for a sandspit about 3.5kms away which holds good numbers of Terns. I immediately started to notice odd-looking "Kentish Plover". These birds were paler and greyer, with longer tarsi, pale pink/ grey legs, heavier beaks, strong white supercilium, the females were much whiter around the eye while the males had a shorter black shoulder patch and steep forehead than KPs. I had some field notes with me for Swinhoe's (White-faced) Plover and was soon fairly sure that's what these birds were but having never seen them before so yesterday I decided to email photos to a friend Peter Ericsson in Thailand for his opinion. He immediately confirmed the identity for Swinhoe's Pl. I estimate there were about 15+breeding pairs on the beach but will do a proper head count this weekend.The good news is that the neighbouring Dahu beach also holds a greater number of these "Kentish Plover" which I will take a better look at when I visit on Sunday and confirm ID.

[AndyB]

Thanks for posting those photos. Have you contact Dave Bakewell too?
http://digdeep1962.blogspot.com/

[Dave B]

Thanks for posting those photos. Have you contact Dave Bakewell too?
http://digdeep1962.blogspot.com/

Hi Andy

Yup - Brian has been in touch - exciting news indeed.

Dave

[BIJ]

I returned to Shanghaizai (Lufeng, Guangdong) and Dahu (Haifeng, Guangdong) beaches this wekend to carry out a head count of birds present. Shanghaizai (3.5kms) held 148 Swinhoe's Plover consisting of 60+pairs, 2 Chicks, 7 1st Spring juveniles, and several groups of two males and a female.Dahu beach (4.5kms) held 131 birds. There were many new arrivals most of which looked to have moulted more recently as their plumage was fresher in appearance. If my numbers are repeated elsewhere along the south coast of China then the numbers for these rare birds is much higher than previously thought.It also raises the interesting question as to where do these birds winter. Dave Bakewell has told me that the largest flock seen to date has been 14.I was delighted to find two early breeding pairs with chicks. I shall continue to monitor both locations throughout the breeding season. I also spotted what looked like at long range to be two or three Chinese Crested Terns with a group of Great Crested terns. I hope to be able to verify ID this coming W/E.

[BIJ]

I returned to Shanghaizai Beach last weekend to find the bulk of the birds had left possibly heading south or perhaps further along the coast.However I did find 32 adults with 3 juveniles, 5 young and 3 chicks. Interesting point is that the semi-fledged young uniquely have greenish yellow legs which apparently revert to greyish pink when fully fledged, very different to the nominate KPs.They are also a lot paler and more faintly speckled. It will be interesting to find out if the birds return later this Summer and whether any winter here. I have checked my Spring photographs and found two Swinhoe's Plover which were present on Dahu Beach the 8th. April. The bulk of the nominate or Eastern Kentish Plover had already migrated north.Further checking on other websites has revealed Swinhoe's Plover present on Dahu Beach in June 2009 which is very good news indeed, suggesting that the birds have become established on the two beaches. But hopefully I will learn a great deal more in the coming months and next Spring. This weekend a group from Hong Kong BWS are visiting the two sites so I hope we can still find birds.

[BIJ]

Saturday 11-06-11. A tropical storm was forecast to pass right over the two beach site areas for the Plover so the HKBWS group wisely cancelled and are rescheduled for this W/E. I being the eternal optimist, decided to go anyway and got lucky. Saturday started with bright blue sky but ominously I could clearly see the edge of the storm with its towering cu-nimb clouds about 30kms to the east. Luckily for me the wind and rain stayed well clear of Dahu beach. I found a total of 123 Swinhoe's Plover which included 32 adult pairs, 11 adults, 33 x 1st brood juveniles and 15 x 2nd brood juveniles.The birds are very pale now anda perfect match for the sandy background. There are also suprisingly a small number of Greater Sand Plover present.These birds have been present since early April and include a pair in breeding plumage. A great day.I hope the weather holds for the HK group next weekend as the birds will certainly still be present.

[AndyB]

Thanks for the updates and photos BIJ. Sounds like you have a regular haunt for them.

[BIJ]

18th/19th.June 2011: I was joined at the weekend by a group from Hong Kong which consisted of Richard Lewthwaite,Mike Kilburn and Martin Hale. I was obviously anxious that with such a prestigious group I should be able to show them plenty of Swinhoe's Plover. Happily we found good numbers of birds on both Dahu and Shanghaizai beaches including plenty of juveniles.There was further good news which was down to Mike Kilburn who asked to look at a nearby WWF board map. We were trying to locate breeding Purple Swamphen at a reserve about 6kms from Dahu village.The board clearly shows that Dahu beach falls within its borders, but not Shanghaizai beach. This could be very important as there is now a groundswell of interest in both these sites with the possibility of a). considering the best way to protect the two beaches and b). possibly organizing a programme to carry out scientific research into the breeding habits of these birds.The plans will most probably be organized through various official bodies in Hong Kong and China but initial discussions have already begun.

[BIJ]

Saturday 25th.June 2011. This W/E I was accompanied by John Holmes from Hong Kong. The weather was OK but stifflingly humid which meant that both of us were forced to consume adequate quantities of beer in the evening to compensate for the water loss during the day.
Numbers were well up on Dahu beach and John was able to take some great photos. I estimate we saw over 120 Swinhoe's Plover on the beach including juveniles.This W/E we didn;t see any nominate or eastern sp.nihonensis KPs. I believe that some of the 1st. brood juveniles may have left but plenty 2nd brood juveniles were present. The adults are very pale now with some of the males almost looking like females but for teh dark shoulder patches. It accentuates the paleness of the leg colouration in stark contrast to nominate Kentish Plover. It will be interesting to learn if the birds head south in their entirety or some remain for the winter.

[Brian S]

BIJ

Thanks for the updates on your observations of these birds; please keep them coming. I am interested in any comments on their behaviour and your perceptions of them in comparison with Kentish Plover. Do they behave any differently when they feed? Is their stance different, as it seems form images?, Etc., etc..

I notice that this has been submitted for publication
Rheindt, F.E., Székely, T., Edwards, S.V., Lee, P.L.M., Burke, T., Kennerley, P.R., Bakewell, D.N., AlRashidi, M., Kosztolányi, A., Weston, M.A., Liu, W.-T., Lei, W.-P., Shigeta, Y., Javed, S., Zefania, S., Küpper, C. (2011): Conflict between genetic and phenotypic differentiation: the evolutionary history of a ‘lost and rediscovered’ shorebird. Submitted.

Brian S

[John Holmes]

Thanks to BIJ for showing me Dahu Beach and surrounds, some photos below:

[BIJ]

Swinhoe's Plover behaviour is often very different to nominate Kentish Plover based on the birds I have been watching from late May this year. Firstly they are much more aggressive than KPs and there are frequent skirmishes which usually involve running chases followed by short flights, on two occasions this was followed by mating when 2 males and one female were involved. I have noticed on several occasions adults with downy chicks protecting them from other adult pairs who appear to be trying to abduct the chick. This could be a case of mistaken identity but in every instance I have witnessed the blood parent birds successfully drove off the other adults. Contact calls are definitely different to KP much softer and more mellow. SPs parent birds both appear to rear their young while I understand in most instances it is the female bird which rears KP juveniles. I found on one occasion 5 1st brood juveniles with one adult female bird late in May. But many first brood juveniles were still with parent birds.I have observed on several occasions parent pairs ushering their chicks down to the seawaters edge to feed on Crab larvae and other invertibrates, usually early in the morning. SPs stance is on the whole more vertical than nominate KPs or Eastern sp.nihonensis reminiscent of Oriental Plover. This is in part due to the longer tarsi found on SPs, it is also very noticeable in juveniles in their non-fledged stage.I have only seen a few breeding pairs of nominate Kentish Plover in the Beijing area, as they mainly breed further north so my comments may not be noteworthy.

[BIJ]

09th./10th.July 2011: I was joined by John & Jemi Holmes and Jonathan Martinez. It was Jonathan's first visit to Dahu beach to see the Swinhoe's Plover. The PRCA were holding manoeuvres on the beach and in the village which slightly curtailed our ability to walk the whole beach for a count of Plover but nevertheless there are still over 60 adult birds present all in moult. We also saw very good numbers of Terns on the sandpsit and along the beach. Nine species which included,Bridled,Black-naped,Roseate,Gull-billed,very early White-winged juvenile,Whiskered, Little, Common sp.longipenni,Greater Crested.

[MichaelF]

The PRCA ...
PRCA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRCA) ?

[Hotspur]

PRCA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRCA) ?

peoples republic of china army?

[MichaelF]

That's the PLA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Liberation_Army) :wink:

[BIJ]

Yes the Army. I met a very pleasant soldier who politely asked me what we were doing on the beach and that I shouldn't take photos.JM speaks good Mandarin while my conversation levels are not fluent by any stretch of the imagination.However after a lengthy explanation he decided to consult his senior officer.I told him I would be back in two weeks and gave him my business card. I don't envisage any major problems at this stage and in fact the PRCA might be a blessing in disguise as it could prevent development on the beach. My main concern is Shanghaizai beach which is outside the confines of the WWF NR but again as yet there is no sign of any development taking place but in China it is only a matter of time so we need to take necessary precautions.

[Brian S]

A couple of new images on the World Rarity Gallery from June by Mikael Bauer

http://www.surfbirds.com/media/gallery_photos/20110801051108.jpg

http://www.surfbirds.com/media/gallery_photos/20110801042821.jpg

Brian S

[BIJ]

I have been returning to the Gongping Dahu NR each W/E.
Saturday 6th. July. There has been a new influx of 1st W birds (90+) on the beach plus a few Kentish Plover sp.nihonensis (16) 1st W birds.These sp.nihonensis birds are presumably from Taiwan. They are distinctly greyer and darker with greyer legs, smaller beaks and head, suggestion of darkish lores almost absent in Swinhoe's Plovers. Still a few juveniles about with adult parent birds.These are very late brood juvs probably only 4-5 weeks old but already fledged in juvenile plumage.Jonathan Martinez who has been further along the coast in SW Guangdong has found small groups of passage birds on non-breeding beaches last week. I am of the opinion that perhaps the majority of Swinhoe's Plover may not fly all the way down to SE Asia but winter along the Viet Nam coast. It is only a theory and I have nothing to back it up at the moment until we start to find large concentrations of wintering birds.But the good news is that I believe this new influx of birds at Dahu beach has come from other sites up the south China coast. I think it unlikely they have arrived from the nearby Shanghaizai beach across the estuary.
Images:
3696/3702 Kentish Plover sp.nihonensis 1st W.
3705/3729 Swinhoe's Plover 1st w.
3638 Swinhoe's Plover juvenile.

[Brian S]

Hi BIJ

Thanks again for your updates. I have one last question.

Have you any recordings of (or comments on/descriptions of) the voice of Swinhoe's Plover?

Brian S

[BIJ]

Brian: Yes we do. Jonathan Martinez made some contact call recodings a few weeks ago. He is currently in Guangxi but I can ask him to forward the recordings to you if you are interested.They do differ from other KP calls.

[BIJ]

Shanghaizai Beach, Gongping Dahu Nr, Haifeng, Guangdong 27th August 2011.
I returned to Shangahizai beach for the first time in six weeks as I was denied access to Dahu last W/E by the PLA ! However good numbers of Swinhoe's Plover 1st Winter birds were present (63). A few Kentish Plover sp.nihonensis were also in evidence. But it seems these birds are migrating certainly as far as Viet Nam. Jonathan Martinez is exploring the other side of Shenzhen,further to the west along the Guangdong coast and is finding plenty of birds.
Photos all 1st Winter birds.

[BIJ]

I have been keeping a close watch on the Dahu and Shanghaizai beaches each W/E and last Saturday Dahu beach produced a big surprise in the form of several breeding male plumage Swinhoe's Plovers. I wasn't at all sure what species of Plover they were as they appeared very different to the SPs I am used to seeing in late May and throughout the Summer. However I sent the photos out to David Bakewell and Peter Kennerley as well as one or two others. Dave is convinced they are SPs and upon reflection I am inclined to agree with him. This raises the question of why are these birds in full breeding plumage in early October ? I am hoping to check the birds again this W/E but we have very poor weather forecasted for the rest of the week so they may well be pushed along the coast. If they are no disturbed I am extremely interested to find out if they might stay on at Dahu or nearby throughout the winter.

[BIJ]

There are apparently two distinct types of "Kentish Plover" on the beach at the moment firstly last weekend produced two Swinhoe's Plover with white lores. This is the normal accepted type while the vast majority of the remaining 200+ birds had black lores also considered by me to be Swinhoe's Plover.They are identical to many birds that bred on the beaches this Summer except they are all in fresh breeding plumage. I estimated that 95% of the adult males had paired up with females and males had begun defending territory. Whether this means they are going to breed sometime during the winter or even if they intend to migrate south remains to be established. But whatever happens, each week these birds are continuing to provide more questions than answers. I am trying to establish whether the first birds sighted in Thailand or Malaysia this year are also in breeding plumage. Peter Kennerley informs me that normally the Malaysian birds arrive in winter plumage.This also applies to all the wintering KPs in Hong Kong.There is another alternative which we are considering, that there maybe a 4th Eastern species of Kentish Plover which is an intergrade of Swinhoe's Plover, ie the black lore birds. But what is certain is that these two distinct types breed together but with no other known types of Kentish Plover. If they prove to be non-migrant birds then this could explain why this population has remained undiscovered as the Guangdong coast is not well covered by birders.

[Alex Lees]

Frank Rheindt et al have just sequenced the plover and failed to find genetic support for species-status for White-faced Plover (= PSC fail), but it passed the Tobias et al criteria ( = 'phenotypic species concept'?).

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0026995


The most likely conclusion of our data is that the White-faced Plover is probably a young lineage whose phenotypic traits are encoded by a limited number of genes, whereas few additional genomic differences have so far accumulated. Its diagnostic plumage traits may additionally be governed by differences in gene expression that would be undetectable by sequence analysis.

[dwholden]

the vast majority of the remaining 200+ birds had black lores also considered by me to be Swinhoe's Plover.

??? is this a typographic error?

There is another alternative which we are considering, that there maybe a 4th Eastern species of Kentish Plover which is an intergrade of Swinhoe's Plover, ie the black lore birds. But what is certain is that these two distinct types breed together but with no other known types of Kentish Plover.

Or does it mean that that the types that occur together breed together?

Frank Rheindt et al have just sequenced the plover and failed to find genetic support for species-status for White-faced Plover (= PSC fail), but it passed the Tobias et al criteria ( = 'phenotypic species concept'?).

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0026995


The most likely conclusion of our data is that the White-faced Plover is probably a young lineage whose phenotypic traits are encoded by a limited number of genes, whereas few additional genomic differences have so far accumulated. Its diagnostic plumage traits may additionally be governed by differences in gene expression that would be undetectable by sequence analysis.

Must admit, I'm worried by their conclusions. Microsatellites are good at detecting (recently evolved) populations, strains, cultivars, pedigrees, etc and the idea that they would fail to detect a species seems implausible. One thing that microsatellites may miss are single-gene mutations (and these may be pleiotropic - affecting several apparently independent phenotypic traits).

A couple of general points that strike me about Tobias's criteria (apologies to those unable to access this paper):
One potential issue is that it includes both characters that are likely to be adaptations to local environments (morphometrics, plumage tone...), and puts them on the same level as characters (speciation markers?) that may be involved with mate selection (display plumage).
Another general point realting to the PLOS paper is that the authors have tried to use Tobias sensibly, but I wonder if it should be used only to compare dealbatus vs (local) alexandrinus. Scanning through the pics of KP on the OBC image library, there's quite a bit of variation - the narrower black frontal bar on the forecrown isn't universal for KP, and presumably neither are some of the other characters being scored. If we're using a phenotypic key to delimit species, maybe it should identify congruent differences between the proposed species and all variants of its nearest relative.

And of course, if Swinhoe's Plovers can have dark lores that makes the points above even more general.

[pete]

And of course, if Swinhoe's Plovers can have dark lores that makes the points above even more general.

I think the dark lores are shown by worn birds. In fresh plumage, they can look extremely white faced but as they go on to breed, it would appear that the plumage gets darker, presumably through wear and abrasian. Thus many a dark-lored bird would have been a classic white-faced bird in Feb-March. That's the obvious reason that these birds were overlooked for so long. They only look mega-distinctive for a few months of the year on their largely un-watched wintering grounds. Even in the worn dark-lored plumage, they are quite different from migrant Kentish Plovers at the same site in May.

Cheers

Pete

[BIJ]

We are not quite sure yet where to include these winter breeding plumaged birds. I have been in contact with Dave in Malaysia who informs me that occasionally they do see breeding plumaged birds in early Winter but rarely. We are planning to try and set-up a flagging programme next year so that we can start to learn more about these birds movements.I was aware of the DNA report but as far as I know all the DNA was derived from old skins. It will be interesting to learn what DNA from live specimens may show. The burning question remains if new tests do show that the DNA is no different to sp.Alexandrinus as to why they are so phenotypically different.Hopefully by this time next year we shall have answered some of the questions raised by these fascinating birds. I have been logging both Haifeng sites on a weekend basis until two weeks ago when I had to stop due to work but I shall be back on the beaches again in early January.

[BIJ]

Pete: I don't entirely agree.If you look at some of my Summer photos when the birds are in faded breeding plumage they still remain highly distinctive and very different to sp.alexandrinus and sp.nihonensis. The other point is that as far as I know apart from the odd bird in Malaysia,no one has recorded breeding plumaged Kentish Plover types in October. Peter Ericsson in Thailand has never seen them in breeding plumage before Jan/Feb.

[pete]

Pete: I don't entirely agree.If you look at some of my Summer photos when the birds are in faded breeding plumage they still remain highly distinctive and very different to sp.alexandrinus and sp.nihonensis.

Even in the worn dark-lored plumage, they are quite different from migrant Kentish Plovers at the same site in May.

Cheers

Pete

Sorry BIJ - where's the difference in our opinion? I was merely pointing out that the white-faced appearance becomes less obvious with ware as the lores darken up. Good luck with the research...

Cheers

Pete

[dwholden]

Pete: thanks for your reply. If (or hopefully when) I get to see these birds, that explanation of loral pattern transition through wear will be a helpful model to have in the back of my mind. It seems that the situation is complicated by other factors. Timing of the acquisition of fresh plumage, and maybe also the extent of “white-facedness” both seem a bit variable. My guess is that both of these traits are subject to genetic variation (i.e. variation within Swinhoe’s Plover), and if SP is a recent taxon, I don’t find it too surprising that new variant traits (differences from KP) are not fixed in the population yet.
BIJ: I really look forward to these updates, so thanks for the postings – it’s fascinating to hear about developments even if it is a confusing picture at present. Despite (or because of) the genetic results I believe it’s good to be open-minded about the status of this bird. You mention the burning question as being why SP is phenotypically different to KP if there’s no apparent genetic difference. I don’t think that’s a problem at all if you only think of the differences between SP and KP as only occurring at a few loci (and if those may not be fixed in the SP population). What is more interesting to me is the possibility that the differences between SP and KP are species-level differences (related to breeding behaviour, and potentially involved in reproductive isolation) – is it true that SP and KP appear most different during pair-formation? It’s also striking that all observers who spend time with Swinhoe’s Plover mention how different they look to other local KP races, and suggest behavioural differences, call differences, etc.
Also...

Brian: Yes we do. Jonathan Martinez made some contact call recodings a few weeks ago. He is currently in Guangxi but I can ask him to forward the recordings to you if you are interested.They do differ from other KP calls.

Are these to be posted on Xeno Canto?

Cheers
Dave

[BIJ]

Dave and Pete: Ref: recordings Jonathan doesn't think they are good enough for posting as there was a lot of background noise but certainly next Spring we will post contact calls etc. Jonathan is organizing a flagging programme headed by a Chinese organisation who will get the licences we need,which we will put into practice early next year before breeding starts which I think should be around March.
You are completely correct when you state the confusing information we getting back from our beach visits. But these birds seem to defy convention and keep posing more questions than answers. I shall be monitoring Haifeng locales from early January onwards while Jonathan will concentrate on the beaches to the West of Shenzhen. Totals have been fairly constant since early October when these mostly dark lore birds showed up in bull breeding plumage.For my beaches about 250 birds on Dahu beach and approximately the same on Shanghaitan beach. Peter Ericsson has just sent me a photo of the first Thailand arrival he has seen this Winter which was a 1st W female but not in breeding plumage. It is noticeable that the breeding females have very distinctive rust caps which contrast with their paler mantle and wing coverts.Best Wishes for the holidays. I return to China on the 9th January. Don't hesitate to get in contact if you are coming out this way.I am usually out most W/Es in the Haifeng area.

[BIJ]

Dave: The differences are obvious when you see them in the field whether in breeding plumage which was for me this Summer from mid-April. The birds appearing very worn with practically no colour showing on the cap.These differences are also apparent in breeding plumage for the birds we are seeing now. In summer breeding the contrast of the pale birds is most obvious in the larger heads and thicker stouter bills, very pale pink longer legs which give the birds more of a Greater Sand Pl stance. Longer tails, whiter and more extensive wing bar. Much paler mantle almost a washed out sandy colour, white lores although some birds do have traces of dark lores. Chicks are also very different often having distinctly yellowish legs, much paler down colour more sandy with paler spots. Winter breeding plumaged birds are much more vivid, with orange caps, very extensive white foreheads, some with dark lores some without, bare parts the same as Summer breeding. There are other differences with smudging behind and below the eye. But in the main all these differences are immediately obvious in the field when comparing birds with sp.Alexandrinus and mostly different from sp.nihonensis. The other point to make is that they do not mix with either of the other KP species during the breeding season, nor with other waders although Jonathan has found some overlap with Dunlin etc on his beaches. They have very aggressive personalities and also distinct pre-breeding habit displays between young and older males.