Harrier in ID Discussion Gallery

[AndyB]

Anyone have any thoughts on Rob's Harrier (http://www.surfbirds.com/cgi-bin/gallery/display.cgi?gallery=gallery28)? Face pattern looks like a Montagu's but Rob has concerns with structure.

[RaptorBirder]

I would councel caution when trying to ID raptors solely from a couple of less than perfect still images. Birds have an uncanny ability to continually and drastically change their wing shapes in response to wind conditions and the activity in which they are engaged, plus lenses and digital imaging techniques can sometimes produce misleading results.

Having said that, the wing formula seems to point squarely to the bird being a Montagu's Harrier. The plumage colouration and stage of moult suggests a second calendar year bird.

I agree that the wings do look rather broad but this could easily be exaggerated by any (or a combination) of the points I raised at the outset.

Incidentally, the section is entitled ID Discussion Gallery but I failed to find my way to any discussion about it.

[greenwithensbirder]

a hen harrier,

dont know what time of year this was taken,but it looks to be in moult as p5 is just emerging. as for the face pattern took this last week in west yorkshire,a pale faced hen harrier with neck collar,a juv female i think.

[RaptorBirder]

Hi Darrell

Thanks for sharing your photo of the Hen Harrier.

If as you say P5 is just emerging that would mean P6 (the critical ID feature) is either missing (which it doesn't appear to be) or is unmoulted which then creates a wing formula that would seem to rule out Hen Harrier.

I've added the two images to this message so others can easily see what this discussion is about.

[Ben Miller]

This bird has been discussed in detail elsewhere, without really coming to a clear conslusion. It's a strange one alright, but this is the summary of the argument:

- Wing forumla isn't a moult artifact, therefore ruling out Hen (& Marsh Hawk...!)
- Facial pattern is very strong, suggesting Montys/Pallid, and the lack of the trade-mark pale 'boa' of Pallid seems to rule that out
- Bird is very poorly marked below for a Hen, again pointing to Monty's

So, the most likely candidate is thought to be 2nd cal famale Montagu's, although it's pretty hard to clinch on these pics...

Ben

PS Photo was taken 6th May 2006

[RaptorBirder]

Thanks for the additional information Ben,

I'm pleased to find that my independent conclusions matched those of the detailed discussion elsewhere.

Is it possible for you to post a weblink to that discussion in this thread please?

Thanks again.

[Ben Miller]

Is it possible for you to post a weblink to that discussion in this thread please?

No probs - I'll PM it over,

Ben

[greenwithensbirder]

not had much experience of montys so i will go with the general view that it is a montys,but the wings in both pics look too broad.