Winter thrushes

[Joe Ray]

Hi all.
It's now early December, and as yet, I have had very few numbers of winter thrushes on my patch, which is normally deluged in them by this time of year.
The weather has been hardly mild, with several haw frosts, yet there do not seem to be any significant numbers arriving.
Is this reflected in any other areas?
Cheers
J

[Nighthawk]

Hi Jyothi, I'm glad you put this on as I've been wondering if it was just us that's lacking with them. I've seen 1 small flock of Fieldfare and 2 Redwing and that's it so far.

Keep 'em crossed J!

[AndyB]

can't comment on UK but the US is seeing some good movements of montane species into lowlands eg redpolls, crossbills and such. I'm patiently waiting for a Varied Thrush.

[Bobolink44]

might be a regional thing or maybe they're on their way - in the wirral (http://wildlifephotographic.blogspot.com/) they are showing up - see photos in link. Bob

[Marcus]

Hi Jyothi,
Plenty up here in Kent, on my patch in West Kent last Saturday there were flocks moving through in a westerly direction with 435 over a three hour period. The following day they appeared to be everywhere locally with one field containing well over 500 birds and probably more likely 1000 (I didn't have time to stop). I do live in an area with plenty of orchards so we are usually blessed with good numbers of winter thrushes. During this movement I only counted three Redwing however.
They're on their way!!

Marcus

[Joe Ray]

Interesting input, I guess its just a very local thing. There are regularly quite big fluxtuations in numbers in my area, that's normal, for a few weeks I can see none at all, and then a few big flocks turn up, but what's interesting is that there have been virtually none so far, only scattered birds in October and then practically nothing since.
Cheers
J

[john robinson]

Jyothi
Redwings been here in Wyre and moved on after they took all the blackthorn berries.
Occasional groups ogf Fielfares over but nothing for them to come down for.

A hard spell and a load of apples chucked out may bring some in.
No where near as many redpolls or siskins as last year though.
JohnR

[Nighthawk]

Hi John,

Do we know why there isn't the influx of Siskin that was supposedto have been coming this winter? Also, any ideas why the lack of Redpolls? Not seen one of either yet.

Good to see that smiling face.

[Joe Ray]

Hi John,

Do we know why there isn't the influx of Siskin that was supposedto have been coming this winter? Also, any ideas why the lack of Redpolls? Not seen one of either yet.

Good to see that smiling face.

I was on scilly for two days (22nd-24th October) and amongst all the rares (Rose-breasted Grosbeak, Blackpoll etc), one of the highlights was the numbers of Siskins. Thousands were knocking about the islands, it was impossible to scan a field or hedge without seeing several. There were also big numbers of Chaffinches on Tresco, with 3000+ estimated in fields by the Great Pool. I do not know if this influx has continued into the winter, and whether there are still high numbers on finches on the islands, but while it lasted it was quite something.
Since then, I have noticed pretty high numbers of Chaffinches on my patch, but nothing out of the norm, and only a handful of Siskins passing through.

[john robinson]

The only thing here in the forest is that there seems to be a marked lack of Birch Catkins and on top of that a few of the more mature Birches have been taken out during various regimes of woodland management. I,ve still had the niger feeders out the same as last year but nothing. Mind you we could get a winter yet !
John

[AndyB]

Here's an interesting article (http://ebird.org/content/ebird/news/Irruption2007Nov.html) on what's going on on the other side of the pond:

"While the exact mechanism of irruptive movements is not entirely clear, populations of all of these species periodically move southward out of the boreal forest, presumably in response to shortages of seeds, berries, and other important winter food sources. Some species, like Red-breasted Nuthatch, show a fairly regular pattern of irruptions every other year, while Pine Grosbeak irruptions occur less frequently, at intervals of five to twenty-five years. The large number of sightings of many boreal irruptives suggests that this winter is going to be an exciting one for birders..."

[Nighthawk]

The only thing here in the forest is that there seems to be a marked lack of Birch Catkins and on top of that a few of the more mature Birches have been taken out during various regimes of woodland management. I,ve still had the niger feeders out the same as last year but nothing. Mind you we could get a winter yet !
John

Thanks John,

True about it being early days, very often we don't see much in the way of Siskins until after Christmas anyway. We've had some Birch trees taken down locally as well and all things such as that make a difference. Ah well, we carry on waiting patiently then.

Thanks for your input Jyothi, with birds such as Rose-breasted Grosbeak, Blackpoll etc are you by any chance trying to whet my appetite? If so, you've succeeded!!!! One of these days, with luck!

Thank you very much Andy, I'll read it tomorrow, must get to bed now.

Good wishes all.

[Nighthawk]

Back again John with GREAT news of Winter Thrushes. Finally saw good numbers of Redwings & Fieldfares on the way to town, loads of them were in grassy/muddy fields, then off to town and to the car park and we sat and watched about 30 in the field right in front of us! Wonderful, until some dear soul bought her dog there! Of all the places in........!:mad: Great while it lasted though.

[john robinson]

Great ! The cold weather certainly brought a few of the Scandinavian jobs in around here. Got some lovely Fieldfare stuff with apples spiked on a tree ready to post.
Cheers
JohnR

[Red-eyed Video]

Great ! The cold weather certainly brought a few of the Scandinavian jobs in around here. Got some lovely Fieldfare stuff with apples spiked on a tree ready to post.
Cheers
JohnR

You certainly have John, that Fieldfare close up is fantastic. Could you add it to your album please?

I had a small flock of Redwings feeding on fallen Cotoneaster berries in my garden yesterday.

[andy22]

For the last 3 weeks i have been seeing a large number of thrushes in my garden and flying over. One day last week i had a flock of 50 blackbirds just up from my house!!! 100's of fieldfares but not many redwings? unusual as they are normally the most common thrush in my area!! When autumn starts i have to wait until about early november until i have good numbers of thrushes around where i live (just outside of london). But this year the large numbers didnt arrive until decemeber, and they are still coming!! more this year than most years!!

andy

[Joe Ray]

Decent numbers of Siskins now going through daily on my patch, but still on small numbers of Redwings and Fieldfares. There have been several cold spells, but these do not seem to have brought the birds in.

[Colin Key]

Interesting thread. A lot of people down here are wondering what has happened to the thrushes this winter; normally, as soon as the weather turns cold in N Europe they become the commonest wintering birds here. Fieldfares are rare here (I have only seen one in eleven years) but it is common to see flocks of 200-300 Redwings and usually Song Thrushes are all over the place (the latter are a favourite target for the hunters and are used to make huge "Empadas de Passaros", Song-bird Pies which contain dozens of whole birds). This year I have seen one small group of about half a dozen Redwing and so far only two Song Thrushes, both in my garden.

There is masses of food around at the moment, so where are the birds?

Colin

[Nighthawk]

Interesting thread. A lot of people down here are wondering what has happened to the thrushes this winter; normally, as soon as the weather turns cold in N Europe they become the commonest wintering birds here. Fieldfares are rare here (I have only seen one in eleven years) but it is common to see flocks of 200-300 Redwings and usually Song Thrushes are all over the place (the latter are a favourite target for the hunters and are used to make huge "Empadas de Passaros", Song-bird Pies which contain dozens of whole birds). This year I have seen one small group of about half a dozen Redwing and so far only two Song Thrushes, both in my garden.

There is masses of food around at the moment, so where are the birds?

Colin

With what you've written above Colin, I personally hope they ALL stay up here! The thought of any birds being hunted and eaten to that, or any other extent is disgusting, so to the question "where are the birds?" I'm sure the answer has to be that they've remembered past experiences and are keeping away!

Thankfully, I'm seeing more up here this year (since December) than I have done for several years, wonderful sights they are too.

[Colin Key]

With what you've written above Colin, I personally hope they ALL stay up here! The thought of any birds being hunted and eaten to that, or any other extent is disgusting, so to the question "where are the birds?" I'm sure the answer has to be that they've remembered past experiences and are keeping away!

Thankfully, I'm seeing more up here this year (since December) than I have done for several years, wonderful sights they are too.

Unless you have actually lived in Southern Europe for any length of time you have no idea just how severe this problem is. I know that particular incidents are brought to our attention by the media (e.g. the recent slaughter of Red-footed Falcons and Corncrakes), but this is just the tip of the iceburg. In the Algarve hunters are allowed to shoot on Thursdays, Sundays and public holidays; this is a "right" which harks back to the days of the Salazar dictatorship when people were allowed to hunt for food. Now they do it just for fun, and nothing is sacred; if it moves it gets shot. When the hunting season begins in late August Portugal Telecom are severely overworked because all these numb-heads take pot-shots at anything perching on telephone wires with the predictable result.

But the serious damage is being done by mist netters, and they are becoming clever by using recordings to call birds in. A shot bird is worth next to nothing (ever seen a Goldfinch killed with a 12 bore shotgun?) but a trapped passerine is worth €2 per bird; if you are getting a couple of hundred birds a day that is serious money to an Algarvian peasant. It is so lucrative that in Sicily the Mafia are now involved in it.

I and my friends are doing our little bit (destroying nets, spring traps, and lime sticks as well as photographing evidence including car number plates) but it is a thankless task and very dangerous work. We got a conviction last year but, under Portuguese law, your identity is revealed and you never know when someone is going to come and torch your house, or worse.

If God really was on my side I would be given immunity to prosecution and allowed to go and shoot every single one of these barbaric b******s.

Colin :hmpf:

[andy22]

i left a message on this page saying that i had 100's of thrushes around my area.... that was about 2/3weeks ago. Now there isnt a single one! they must have moved further south? But i do recal being up in norfolk in October looking for a red brested fly at wells woods and all around us there were hundreds if not thousands of thrushes, i certainly havent ever seen that many in one go!!! There must be some flocks around somewhere??

andy

[john robinson]

Pleased to say the finches have finally turned up in the garden here. Dozens of Siskins, Redpolls, and Golfinches.

[Joe stockwell]

been a lot of siskins down here for a while now and goldfinches but no redpols but siskins been here since november

[Simon Wates]

Here in the Algarve Redwings are very scarce this autumn/winter up to now. Only a few singles have been noted across the region. Although numbers fluctuate considerably year to year, it is normally a fairly common winter visitor throughout inland Algarve; in fact in many favoured areas flocks of in excess of 20 birds are to be found with minimum effort most years. I don't remember them being as scarce as they seem to be this year at this time.

It seems that in Britain (and in other parts of western Europe?), Redwing is less abundant than normal at the moment - I was hoping that some of you may confirm this impression.

Cheers

Simon

[MichaelF]

Yep, only very small numbers here (NE England) so far this winter. Last winter, numbers were higher than usual here.

[Colin Key]

Here in the Algarve Redwings are very scarce this autumn/winter up to now. Only a few singles have been noted across the region. Although numbers fluctuate considerably year to year, it is normally a fairly common winter visitor throughout inland Algarve; in fact in many favoured areas flocks of in excess of 20 birds are to be found with minimum effort most years. I don't remember them being as scarce as they seem to be this year at this time.

It seems that in Britain (and in other parts of western Europe?), Redwing is less abundant than normal at the moment - I was hoping that some of you may confirm this impression.

Cheers

Simon

I recall, six or more years ago, seeing huge flocks (maybe 200 birds) of Redwing streaming through the trees and shrubs on Quinta da Rocha and feasting on berries. I have previously had flocks of 20 or more birds at a time in my garden feeding on the fruit of Arbutus and Schinus molle. The cleansing and sanitisation of Qta da Rocha by the new owner has totally removed the food of this species, but that does not explain why I saw only three individuals in my garden during the whole of last winter, and not a single bird so far this year. The number of Song Thrushes is also well down on previous years.

This is surprising considering the sudden Arctic blast which has recently hit northern Europe and would be expected to drive these species south in large numbers. So, where are they?

Colin :err:

[MichaelF]

Maybe headed south / southeast this winter? Looking at the NOAA snow maps http://www.natice.noaa.gov/ims/ , there's only a very little snow coverage at the highest altitudes throughout central & eastern Europe (even as far north as Poland and the Baltic States are still snow-free), so I'd guess it's a milder winter than usual over that way. Though how they know which way to head, I don't know!

[Colin Key]

The number of Song Thrushes has built up considerably this month, presumably as a result of the severe weather further north (20 cms of snow in Porto this morning!!), but I have still not seen a single Redwing.

Can't find the post at the moment, but one of the forum members based in Spain commented on exceptionally high numbers of Redwing there (in Andalucia, I think).

Other "missing birds" here in western Algarve are Teal and Shoveller (usually the two commonest duck species in winter), and again I read recently about record numbers currently present in Donãna.

Colin :err:

[MichaelF]

(20 cms of snow in Porto this morning!!)Yikes! How rare is that??

Turned much milder here at last, +10° today

[forktail]

Anyone had an Icelandic coburni Redwing yet?

F.

[Colin Key]

Yikes! How rare is that??

Turned much milder here at last, +10° today

Rare as in "never before" (in living memory) I believe.

Bright sunshine but only +10℃here too. Hit -5℃on Thursday night and my garden is 'dead'. Noticeable absence of insects today and a dramatic drop in the number of Chiffchaffs.

Colin :ouch:

[MichaelF]

Hit -5℃on Thursday night and my garden is 'dead'. Noticeable absence of insects today and a dramatic drop in the number of Chiffchaffs.
Ouch! That's a degree colder than I've had so far this winter here at 55°N latitude. Any guesses as to whether the Chiffs have moved across to Morocco, or died?

[Colin Key]

Ouch! That's a degree colder than I've had so far this winter here at 55°N latitude. Any guesses as to whether the Chiffs have moved across to Morocco, or died?

Difficult to say Michael. Of course in this cold weather, with very few insects, the birds which are present are less active and therefore less conspicuous giving the impression that they are fewer in number.

I have little doubt that many (and this year the number of Chiffs seems to have been greater than I can ever remember) have moved further south, although oddly there are are quite a few Barn Swallows around (just returned from my afternoon dog-walking in bright sunshine and discovered that the frost has not killed off the mosquitos!).

I recall a winter here about nine years ago when we had temperatures of -7℃for several nights in succession and I found Chiffchaffs literally frozen to death in some of my shrubs where they were roosting.

Colin

[Kenwin5]

I've noticed a big drop in the number of fan-tailed warblers about too, on all sites that I visit regularly, at Salgados, Quarteira and Vilamoura. Are these normally resident all year here?

[MichaelF]

They're non-migratory, so have probably died. Unless they turned into Zitting Cisticolas, of course.

[Colin Key]

They are still here Ken, but in this dreadful weather (last night's storm was the worst in living memory in Algarve, and my house is totally flooded out today) these tiny birds are just keeping their heads down. Same applies to Bluethroats which are migratory - they arrived early last autumn (mid September) in good numbers and I reckon we have about 12 - 15 birds on my local patch (Ria de Alvor). I can hear them, but have only actually seen one individual in the past month.

Colin

[Simon Wates]

I've noticed a big drop in the number of fan-tailed warblers about too, on all sites that I visit regularly, at Salgados, Quarteira and Vilamoura. Are these normally resident all year here?

Although I really do appreciate your concern, I believe it dangerous to come to these sort of conclusions through impressions based on casual observation (assuming that you have not carried out any controlled monitoring of this species!).

An easy way for you to find out would be to establish say, half a dozen, transects of known length (200-300m an ideal length) where the sp occurs. Counting the number of contacts (visual or auditive) along the transects on a regular and repetitive basis over 3 years or so would easily generate relative abundance and make trustful year to year comparisons. Better still, divide your contacts using "bands" - say >25metres and <25 metres from you and then you could generate true abundance and have excellent quantitative data to refer to.

In Portugal the common birds census (CAC - Censo das Aves Comuns) is now entering its 4th year - lets see where Zitting Cisticola is going according to this - the methodology is similar to what I described above, except it uses counts from fixed points rather than transects (which is rather better anyway).

I have been living in the Algarve now for some 14 years and all I could say is this sp seems to fluctuate somewhat but I haven't noticed any broad-scale large decline. It has however disappeared from places due to construction activities.

Best wishes

Simon Wates