Four IDs and a question

[Jacqueline Burrell]

Happy and successful birding New Year

1. Late November at Abu Soma on the Red Sea south of Hurghada
2. Mid-December at Marsa Alam southern Red Sea
3. Late November at Abu Soma on the Red Sea south of Hurghada
4. Which heron? El Gouna on the Red Sea north of Hurghada.
5. These Caspian Terns[?] were in El Gouna on the Red Sea north of Hurghada
but why the big difference in the colour of thier beaks?

:beer:

[Brian S]

Jacqueline

1. greenshank - though I can't quite see if the lores are white or have a dark line, the structure looks good for greenshank rather than marsh sand
2. greater sandplover
3. tough, but possibly a ringed or kentish plover - prob the latter
4. great egret
5. caspian terns

Brian S

[Jacqueline Burrell]

Does this photo help?

[Colin Key]

#3 Kentish Plover.

#5 Orange bill and short legs makes one of these birds a Lesser Crested Tern (the other certainly a Caspian).

Colin

[Brian S]

Colin

I can't see a LCTern ever being the same size as a Caspian: when seen together LCtern is very much smaller than Caspian - about the same size as Sandwich Tern (see attached images from the galleries, one of Caspian with Sandwich; the other of LCTern next to Sandwich). Short legs are an artifact of posture; orange bill of age.

Brian S

New image not much help really, still looks a bit marsh sand like

[Colin Key]

Brian,

The size of the orange-billed tern also worried me. It is rather difficult to tell from this photograph how close together the two birds were and whether the "size illusion" factor is playing tricks. It also rather seems as though the orange-billed tern has just had a "shake" and ruffled its feathers, which would tend to make it look larger (I am seeing this frequently at the moment where we have both Caspian and Sandwich Terns roosting together in reasonable numbers down here - Caspian sometimes look unusually small and Sandwich unusually large). The colour and apparently much slimmer shape to the bill, combined with leg length still say LC Tern to me - but it is not a good photograph. We have also had a few orange-billed hybrids here in Portugal and Spain which could not safely be made into anything!

#1 is still "iffy" - bill looks straight enough for Marsh (not the upturn characteristic of Greenshank) but not slim enough, and the overall structure of the bird is not quite "dainty" enough for Marsh.

Colin

[AndyB]

Nice photos Jacqueline. Thanks for posting. I'd agree with the above IDs and would go for a young Caspian on the yellower-billed Tern. If it was on its own, could be a good mystery photo and would remind me a little of a Royal. Best, Andy

[Colin Key]

Nice photos Jacqueline. Thanks for posting. I'd agree with the above IDs and would go for a young Caspian on the yellower-billed Tern. If it was on its own, could be a good mystery photo and would remind me a little of a Royal. Best, Andy

Sorry Andy, but juvenile/immature Caspians do not have bills of that colour or shape.

I had originally thought about the "Royal" route, unlikely though it might be. We had a large, orange-billed tern at Lagoa dos Salgados (Pêra Marsh) this year which was photographed but never definitively identified. Royal was mooted, but never agreed upon.

Terns do cross-breed, so we might not get to a conclusive answer on this one either.

Colin

[Bobolink44]

Not sure about the "shank" but the terns look identical in size to me and I do not see shorter legs on the yellow-billed bird. Caspians are huge and here (http://www.earthethics.com/royal_and_caspian_ternssmall.jpg) are both Caspian and Royal together. Royal being only close contender due to size.

Aren't there bill variations in young Caspians as in this yellow-billed bird (http://www.birdsasart.com/231/caspianternjuv.jpg)?

[Nathan Kipling]

I'd say the tern on the right only looks smaller than the one on the left because of its hunched posture and even the apparent colour of its bill could be the way it's catching the light by being at a different angle so if you ask me two Caspians

:smile:

[Brian S]

Colin

Check this link for an orange-billed Caspian Tern

http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=87330

Brian S

[Jacqueline Burrell]

I’ve been a member for a little over a week and have picked up so many tips already. My only regret is not having discovered Surfbirds a long time ago.

Jacqueline

[Jacqueline Burrell]

If it was a Royal I would be heart broken as it is not on the list of recorded birds in Egypt except for one possible un-photographed sighting in 1999.

At the time I took the terrible photo, I was concentrating on an osprey which had temporarily circled out of sight.

Jacqueline

[Colin Key]

Colin

Check this link for an orange-billed Caspian Tern

http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=87330

Brian S

Yes Brian, but that is orange (dark orange at that), the bill of the bird in Jacqueline's photo is yellow.

Actually, I am prepared to concede on this (but an interesting discussion). I put Jacqueline's photo into Photoshop in attempt to get more detail. Not possible as there are very few pixels there. There is some chromatic noise/aberration which, if you try to adjust, loses the colour in both birds' bills.

If you take the photo at face value then I still have a problem with the right hand bird having a paler yellow/orange bill than I have ever seen on a Caspian (and they are a common species here), the bill appears to be much thinner than on the obvious Caspian to the left, I think that the legs of the dubious bird are too short for Caspian (but agree that posture could have this result), and I see no evidence of juvenile plumage.

Good game!

Colin:wub:

[AndyB]

Got an (rare for me) opportunity to photograph Royal and Caspian together today - nice to see the size comparison between the 2 species and because it was somewhat related to this thread, thought I'd post the shot here for future reference.