Motacilla flava or Motacilla flava pygmaea?

[Jacqueline Burrell]

Hi

These four photographs were taken last February in Luxory within a square half mile.

A. Are pix 3[a] and 3[b] the Egyptian species Motacilla flava pygmaea as they were small and also hypo-active in comparison to the larger bird is in pic 1?

B. What is the explanation for the yellow feathers on the back of the bird in the first pic?

C. Any comments about number 2?

Cheers

[Graham Etherington]

Can't really comment on the Yellow Wagtail races as I don't have much experience of them, but all the birds in photo number 2 look like Grey Wagtails.

[Josh Jones]

Hard to say what races the Yellow Wags are from the photos, but I don't see any Grey Wagtails in the four images posted.

[Graham Etherington]

The front left bird in the second photo has a grey back and scapulars, no obvious wingbars, white belly and yellow vent, all of which appear to point to Grey Wagtail. The clincher though, is the flesh-coloured legs. I did think that might be a trick of the light, but look how obviously black the legs of the birds in the other photos are.

[Colin Key]

Jacqueline,

Motacilla sp. are a bit of a minefield at the best of times; sorry to say that your photos are not good enough (due to "contra jour" lighting) to make positive IDs. I do not see any Grey Wags here.

Colin

[Nathan Kipling]

I'd agree that the dark head's been blown out by the strong light in the first picture which is otherwise alright and the fact that the back colour extends onto the front suggests M. f. pygmaea to me. I'm not sure what to make of the grey wagtail-like birds in the middle pictures and the bird in the last picture's also a female so it's harder as well.

:smile:

[Graham Etherington]

Jacqueline,
Do you have any more photos of the birds in the second photo. I'm interested why I am the only one who thinks they are grey. One showing leg colour would be great (all of the 'flava' wagtails have black legs, but Grey has flesh coloured legs).
Cheers,
Graham

[Colin Key]

Jacqueline,
Do you have any more photos of the birds in the second photo. I'm interested why I am the only one who thinks they are grey. One showing leg colour would be great (all of the 'flava' wagtails have black legs, but Grey has flesh coloured legs).
Cheers,
Graham

Graham,

I do not think you can make too much of "apparent" leg colour in a photo of this quality. I have closer views of some black-legged birds which are back-lit (as these birds are) and the legs appear so translucent that you can actually see blood vessels.

Colin

[ampelinus]

Hi Graham, For what it's worth Grey Wagtail was my initial thought, certainly for the bird on the left, not sure about the other two.I still think it's a Grey for the reasons you noted and the yellow undertail coverts. A

[RoyHargreaves]

The "Grey Wagtail" has longish legs and a shortish tail as you would expect for a Yellow not a Grey. Don't get caught out by the leg colour in the back-lit conditions - under these conditions flaring round the sides of narrow legs can make them appear pale (never mind that pigmentation defects could also do that as well). Also the supercilium looks too wide and prominent for Grey and ear-coverts don't seem right. Also you would reasonably expect to see the longest uppertail-coverts on a Grey, which are yellowish. I agree that the upperparts look odd but grey-mantled Yellow Wags do occur and these birds cause all sorts of fun.

As to whether they are pygmaea. On plumage it can't be reliably done. However pygmaea are smaller than other races and are the only taxon you would expect in Egypt in February as the others, apart from feldegg, don't migrate through the region until April. Feldegg can be eliminated as the supercilia are too prominent for that taxon.

HTH

[RoyHargreaves]

P.S. 1st winter Yellow are variable. One concern I do have is pygmaea with such prominent supercilia isn't what I would expect.