Rough-legged Buzzard

[Josh Jones]

Take a look at this bird, being reported as a Rough-legged Buzzard in Wooler, Northumberland, UK:

http://www.birdguides.com/pictures/default.asp?v=1&f=158663&r=0&st=0&q=

Is it just me, or is anyone else unconvinced from the above?

Lack of feathered tarsi, dark patches on flanks failing to extend under the belly, head pattern and general jizz/structure seem to point to this being a Common Buzzard (Buteo buteo) as opposed to B. lagopus.

I've certainly seen more convincing candidates for lagopus that have turned out to be Common before...

[Josh Jones]

apologies for this posting three times, not sure what happened there!

[greenwithensbirder]

Is it just me, or is anyone else unconvinced from the above?


and its in a back garden:laugh:

[Andy_Walker]

Take a look at this bird, being reported as a Rough-legged Buzzard in Wooler, Northumberland, UK:

http://www.birdguides.com/pictures/default.asp?v=1&f=158663&r=0&st=0&q=

Is it just me, or is anyone else unconvinced from the above?

Lack of feathered tarsi, dark patches on flanks failing to extend under the belly, head pattern and general jizz/structure seem to point to this being a Common Buzzard (Buteo buteo) as opposed to B. lagopus.

I've certainly seen more convincing candidates for lagopus that have turned out to be Common before...

I think this has already been re-identified as a Common Buzzard?.... see here.... http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?p=1104918#post1104918

from #2810 onwards i think...

Andy

[AndyB]

Thanks Andy. Looks like the 2 bird theory is at play with a real Rough-legged hanging out in the area with this impostor.

[Lothianbirder]

Take a look at this bird, being reported as a Rough-legged Buzzard in Wooler, Northumberland, UK:

http://www.birdguides.com/pictures/default.asp?v=1&f=158663&r=0&st=0&q=

Is it just me, or is anyone else unconvinced from the above?

Lack of feathered tarsi, dark patches on flanks failing to extend under the belly, head pattern and general jizz/structure seem to point to this being a Common Buzzard (Buteo buteo) as opposed to B. lagopus.

I've certainly seen more convincing candidates for lagopus that have turned out to be Common before...

Hi Josh

I saw this bird on Sunday 13th and had prolonged views on a couple of occasions. It appeared to be a nailed on RLB. I picked the bird up initially at distance and it's head stood out a mile as being extremely pale. I had prolonged views of the tail at one point being extremely pale with a few tail bars - presumably then a male. It also had a palish base to the primaries and some streaking to a very pale upper chest. I assumed from this an immature bird.

I also saw the bird later and much closer perched on a wall. It flew away from me showing a classic RLB tail. There is a CB in the area that has a palish tail but is nothing in comparison to the RLB.
I attach a record of record shot which gives you some feel for the pale head but not a lot else.

[Lothianbirder]

Take a look at this bird, being reported as a Rough-legged Buzzard in Wooler, Northumberland, UK:

http://www.birdguides.com/pictures/default.asp?v=1&f=158663&r=0&st=0&q=

Is it just me, or is anyone else unconvinced from the above?

Lack of feathered tarsi, dark patches on flanks failing to extend under the belly, head pattern and general jizz/structure seem to point to this being a Common Buzzard (Buteo buteo) as opposed to B. lagopus.

I've certainly seen more convincing candidates for lagopus that have turned out to be Common before...

This pic may show the paleness of the head slightly better?

[Lothianbirder]

This pic may show the paleness of the head slightly better?

Looking at the second pic again you can just make out the start of the pale tail

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[Josh Jones]

Looking at the second pic again you can just make out the start of the pale tail

Can you?!

I'm far from convinced from your images alone - they show very little that could conclusively ID this bird either way. The head doesn't even look particularly pale...

[Lothianbirder]

Can you?!

I'm far from convinced from your images alone - they show very little that could conclusively ID this bird either way. The head doesn't even look particularly pale...

I did say it was a record shot and I wasn't claiming my images were conclusive! But I think they do show a pale crown. The photo of the bird originally posted on birdguides as a RLB clearly is not, but I am more than happy with the ID of the bird I saw at length in the field. It wouldn't be the first time a photographer has taken a pic of the wrong bird!As far as I am aware this is where the debate comes from not on the ID of the RLB in the field.

[Josh Jones]

I did say it was a record shot and I wasn't claiming my images were conclusive! But I think they do show a pale crown. The photo of the bird originally posted on birdguides as a RLB clearly is not, but I am more than happy with the ID of the bird I saw at length in the field. It wouldn't be the first time a photographer has taken a pic of the wrong bird!As far as I am aware this is where the debate comes from not on the ID of the RLB in the field.

I understand that it is (obviously) a record shot, but I was questioning the claim you can see a hint of a pale tail, which on my monitor you cannot.

As I said, I don't want to draw any conclusions from your images - I don't think the head/crown look particularly pale in comparison to the body. Of course, this may have looked different in the flesh. And thats where it should be left - if it looked like a RLB in the flesh to you, then I'm sure it was one.

Josh

[Colin Key]

No disrespect to Lothianbirder, but these really are pretty awful shots, and I would not even go so far as to call them "record shots"; by definition, record shots should at least "record" some data and these do not. Both could as well be Circus sp. as Buteo sp.

I have not seen a RLB for quite a few years but have spent much time watching them at Harty Marshes (Isle of Sheppey) several years ago. IMHO, unless you get reasonable views of the undertail then you are onto a loser with this species.

I am currently surrounded by Common Buzzards down here, hundreds of them around my farm in the winter, and no two individuals are the same. Apart from jizz in flight they could sometimes be anything - I have stopped looking at them to be honest.

Colin

[forktail]

IMHO, unless you get reasonable views of the undertail then you are onto a loser with this species.


Colin

I don't really follow? esp not for a juv. Do you mean uppertail?

identification from above should be fine - the pale primary patch is a pretty good fieldmark and the (clear cut on a juv.) tail-band on a white tail shows well. They can be quite similar to pale Common Buzz from below and the undertail band can be slightly diffuse lacking the obvious white/dark contrast of the uppertail but should still be obvious along with the more conspicuous darker belly markings. From above the discrete uppertail band of RLB should be a clincher (unless a LLB is about!)

The structure and gliding attitude should be a big help too.

F.

[Josh Jones]

The structure and gliding attitude should be a big help too.

I was going to say - this is better than the uppertail for me, especially if views are distant and poor - some Commons can look pretty similar based on this alone!

Structure, jizz, and a combination of the expected features (e.g. for juveniles extensive chestnut belly, contrastingly pale head, as well as dark carpal patches, pale uppertail contrasting with dark band and feathered tibia are all helpful!).

[Colin Key]

I don't really follow? esp not for a juv. Do you mean uppertail?


F.

Err, yes, well done, I wondered who would be the first to spot that one!!! (Blush).

Colin

[mike meidlinger]

Hey guys,

Just to take a step back....is there anybody else willing to particpate in this debate who has actually seen the bird that lothianbirder has and agrees with the claim that it is indeed a rough-legged??????