Need help with this juv. gull

[David in Miyazaki]

Seen here in southern Kyushu, Japan, in January, winter. Over coastal waters. This might be impossible, but would appreciate some help even some possibles. I have seen some Vega Gulls about recently, and there was a Saunders gull flying around at the same time, though I do not think it is related to that gull. Thanks

[Brian S]

Crikey David, you like to post testing images!

In many ways there are perhaps not enough visible featurs here by which this can be positively identified. One of the most eye-catching is the tail pattern, with a relatively narrow black band at the tip and an almost unmarked white base. This might lead a thought towards Mongolian Gull, but some 'taimyrensis' Heuglin's gulls can show this also, as perhaps some Vega - but then some treat Mongolian and Vega s the same species and 'taimyrnesis' Heuglin's is thought to be a hybrid between Heuglin's and Vega, so we aren't getting very far.

The axillaries and underwing coverts remind me of 1-w Heuglin's a bit, but I think can be matched by Mongolian. Check out the images of Mongolian at this great Japanese Gull website.

http://www23.tok2.com/home/jgull/mongolicus/index.htmlhttp://www23.tok2.com/home/jgull/mongolicus/index.html

Brian S

[David in Miyazaki]

Thanks Brian for your helpful comments. Will check the site you have given me and see if I can make out anything. Thanks again.

[AndyB]

Not sure if you got any other shots or larger ones too. Gulls are fascinating and you live in a great part of the world for them so please feel free to post your gull shots here. Could be educational for all of us.

[David in Miyazaki]

Unfortunately, that was the only photo I got as it didn't hang around and kept moving on. Surprisingly, I have seen very few gulls here in Miyazaki. We have seen a few though, a link to my photo of a Saunders gull on Flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10394300@N05/2157068665/in/set-72157601752679318/
I have some not quite so good ones of Vega Gulls. How do you suggest I post them?

I have just put a few photos in My photos ID Discussion thing, but I don't know how it works, and the pictures are so small. I don't know what else I could do?

[David in Miyazaki]

I have uploaded some of my poor quality gull photos if they are of any value in My Photos. They can be seen here I think. If I am working this site properly.

http://surfbirds.com/albums/showgallery.php?cat=541

[AndyB]

very nice David, thank you

[AndyB]

Here's another great Japanese gull photo site (http://larus.hp.infoseek.co.jp/gullidentifi_.htm). The 2 books they advertise are very good and beautifully illustrated. Gull one especially nice. Highly recommended!

[David in Miyazaki]

Thanks Andy, for the web site of Japanese Gulls. Looks like a helpful site for future identifications.