Gull ID

[Josh Jones]

Any opinions on the gull shown in the images attached? I have a few ideas but it would be interesting to hear others' opinions... I will follow with details later/tomorrow.

[jeff lamp]

1st win herring gull showing more colour to the bill than most at that age.hugely varied species.

[Josh Jones]

1st win herring gull showing more colour to the bill than most at that age.hugely varied species.

Thanks for the feedback Jeff, this was of course what I thought. Is this bird actually in first-winter plumage though? From what I can see it looks like it has retained a considerable amount of juvenile plumage.

Question is, where is this Herring Gull from?

Discuss...

[AndyB]

Looks quite dark. No other shots you're hiding from us? Didn't flush the flock to get a rump and tail shot?

All, if you want to immerse yourself in Herring photos of both asian and north american subspecies, fill your boots here: http://larus.hp.infoseek.co.jp/gullidentifi_.htm

[Brian S]

As others have said, I also go with Herring Gull.

There is a great deal of variation in Herring Gull coloration, including virtually all dark tails and dark body plumage, that within a British context only the most obvious smithsonianus should be identified.

Brian S

[JanJ]

Hello Josh.

Strange things happens when you blow an image up - like in nr2, it gets darker and the underparts looks more uniform - which perhaps would set some of thinking American Herring. I assume you have taken the gull recently, in any case a date is always a good thing! It looks like a normal Herring Gull argenteus/argentatus and there´s visible first winter scapulars, paler and anchor patterned, while there seems to be (difficult to see in the images) a few juvenile lower and rear scapulars like the second bird here:

http://www.gull-research.org/hg/hg1cy/h117774oct.htm

Some argentatus from northern Scandinavia can have a delayed moult into first winter but there´s much individual variation:

http://www.gull-research.org/hg/hg2cy/2cyjan09.html

http://www.gull-research.org/hg/hg2cy/2cyjan10.html

http://www.gull-research.org/hg/HG2CY01.htm

JanJ

[Josh Jones]

Taken yesterday (27/1) in Peterborough, UK.

Yes, Herring Gull was my opinion too, probably (as Jan suggests) a northern argentatus. Jan provides some excellent links here, one in particular showing a very similar bird. However, I just wanted to see what others thought, and if they concurred with my feelings - the delayed moult especially made me think this bird probably came from a considerable way north, and its bulk and size point certainly pointed towards argentatus in the field.

While I agree there is some moult in the scapulars, it did seem fairly limited in the flesh with some juvenile feathers retained (not easily seen in the poor images), and not all that obvious on such a dark bird, and so I was of course quite interested to get some shots.

Smithsonianus did cross my mind, albeit briefly. However in flight the tail band, although fairly broad, was not extensive enough for this and of course confirmed what I imagined I would see.

Cracking bird though - stuck out like a sore thumb amongst the other birds present.

[AndyB]

To continue the general theme although not about Josh's specific bird. Possible European Herring Gull in Florida. Photos by Al Jaramillo and Andy Wraithmell
http://www.surfbirds.com/cgi-bin/gallery/display.cgi?gallery=gallery10


http://www.surfbirds.com/media/gallery_photos/20080128112411.jpg
European Herring Gull , Volusia Co., Florida, Tomoka Landfill (Volusia Co. Landfill) January 27, 2008 © Alvaro Jaramillo
Poss. Euro Herring Gull. Showed pale rump, extensive white barring on base of tail, wide bars on outer greater coverts, striking pale inner primary window etc. It also was more greyish than smithsonianus, and showed blacker tail and primaries, both with thin white tips.

http://www.surfbirds.com/media/gallery_photos/20080128123150.jpg
European Herring Gull, Volusia County Landfill, Florida January 27th 2008 © andy wraithmell- 2nd state record