Possible European Herring Gull in Florida

[Brian S]

There are images of a possible European Herring Gull in Florida

http://www.surfbirds.com/media/galle...0128112411.jpg (http://www.surfbirds.com/media/gallery_photos/0128112411.jpg)
European Herring Gull , Volusia Co., Florida, Tomoka Landfill (Volusia Co. Landfill) January 27, 2008 © Alvaro Jaramillo
Poss. Euro Herring Gull. Showed pale rump, extensive white barring on base of tail, wide bars on outer greater coverts, striking pale inner primary window etc. It also was more greyish than smithsonianus, and showed blacker tail and primaries, both with thin white tips.

http://www.surfbirds.com/media/galle...0128123150.jpg (http://www.surfbirds.com/media/gallery_photos/0128123150.jpg)
European Herring Gull, Volusia County Landfill, Florida January 27th 2008 © andy wraithmell- 2nd state record

Obviously, this sticks out from classic American Herring Gulls, and appears to have lots of good European Herring features (tail band, pattern of coverts), but I have looked very carefully at this and wonder, is it just me or is there something strange about the pattern of the rearmost scapulars, that is not quite right for first-winter argentatus/argenteus? In addition, the pattern of the new 1-w scaps seems slightly strange also. I went out and checked the local argentatus/argenteus mix we get here in Suffolk, and came away still feeling just a little uneasy. Maybe it is just me taking a very cautious approach - it is a heck of a long way south for European Herring (level with just north of the Canary Islands) - and I don't want to sound too negative.

I further wondered, as within the argentatus/argenteus group, where some birds can appear to possess a large number of pro simthsonianus features, is it possible that odd, pale smithsonianus ever look like this? I feel sure that Alvaro with experience would not be suggesting this if he thought they could....

Brian S

[JanJ]

Hi Brian.

If I understand you right those rear scapulars are in fact juvenile ones, the last to be moulted to second generation (1st winter) and quite similar to these:

http://www.gull-research.org/hg/hg1cy/429limedec.html

Difficult to see properly are the scapular pattern higher up but at least one anchor patterned second generation is visible in the middle. Otherwise it seems that there´s a limited post-juvenile moult. If I saw this one at home at this time of year (S. Sweden) I would of course identify it as a Herring Gull, argentatus on location. I would note the limited post-juvenile moult and perhaps consider a Northern argentatus, only because of the limited moult, not the paleness.
There seems to be a complete overlap in every character in smithsonianus and argenteus/argentatus, hard to understand, but a fact as it seems. Quite depressing when you encounter the occasionally smithsonianus like argentatus at rare occasions!

The tertial pattern, strong notching, lightly barred undertail coverts and overall palness - together with other mentioned characters in the Florida gull are indicative of argenteus/argetatus.

So, if we need a smithsonianus candidate to at least look something like this in W. Europe:

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=15035

What would they need be in a reversed situation, the Florida Gull! (?)

JanJ

[Brian S]

JanJ

I am playing devil's advocate here, and of course I realised the rear scaps were juv., but still might contend that the white notching looks quite triangular, creating a 'batman' symbol effect.

There is a great deal of variation in Herring Gulls both sides of the Atlantic, but the question I was really asking (in an attempt to provoke discussion) was can AHG ever show these features. In particular, the undertail covert marking seems very restricted for AHG (so good for EHG); can AHG ever have such a restricted tail band?; does AHG ever show such an amount of white on the greater covs?; etc..

Check some of the 1-w smithsonianus here
http://www.amazilia.net/images/Birds/Gulls/HerringGull.htm

and other European Herring in the US claims here
http://home.bway.net/lewis/birds/CTarg/ctarg.html

Brian S

[JanJ]

Well Brian - not implying that you wouldn´t know the difference between juv. and 1st winter scapulars on a Herring Gull!
A wellknown Larophile ones said - if a juv/1st winter argenteus/argentatus can show a smithsonianus like all dark tail (far from all smithsonianus has an all dark tail, usually some vermiculation on a few outer tail feathers) then some smithsonianus can show an argenteus/argentatus like tail! Apparently smithsonianus can, but can they show the combination of an overall paleness, pale greater covert bar, restricted tail band as in the Florida Gull?

This much discussed gull (Binbrook Herring Gull) seen by Brandon Holden in Ontario Canada in Mar. 2005 is interesting:

http://www.surfbirds.com/media/gallery_photos/20050307071717.jpg

http://www.surfbirds.com/media/gallery_photos/20050307071523.jpg

Discussion here:

http://www.virtualbirder.com/bmail/idfrontiers/200503/w2/index.html

Unfortunately the images of this gull and other interesting ones are no longer available on his site, found these two on Surfbirds.

I haven´t seen a smithsonianus with the characters combined as in the Florida Gull, but I have seen some argentatus with several characters usually associated with smithsonianus, but in a reversed order.

http://www.surfbirds.com/cgi-bin/gallery/search2.cgi?species=&photographer=&location=&county=Newfoundland&start=41

Rear scapulars:

http://www.martinreid.com/Gull%20website/hsmitp18.html

JanJ

[Brian S]

JanJ

I know exactly what you mean, and am inclined to agree with your last statement but wondered what those in US think.

Brian

[Limeybirder]

I have enjoyed reading your comments fella's regarding the EHG found by Alex Vinokur at the Volusia Landfill last month (still present by the way, and AV reports there being a second candidate there in the last couple of days).

I just wanted to comment on something Brian mentioned in his first post and I quote

"Maybe it is just me taking a very cautious approach - it is a heck of a long way south for European Herring (level with just north of the Canary Islands) - and I don't want to sound too negative".

I don't think you are being negative Brian and caution should always be excersized when dealing with such a rare record. However northern species such as Glaucous are reported on an annual basis in Florida and Kumlien's on a near annual basis (this year represents a good year for Kumlien's with at least 4-5 records so far, infact I think they are outnumbering the Glaucs at the moment). There is even a well documented and twitched record of an adult Slaty-backed Gull, which delighted birders in the Florida Keys some years back. It had a healthy addiction to Popcorn apparently! My point is that I don't think we are too far south for a EHG although one shouldn't expect to see them here on an annual basis. Or should we? More and more birders in Florida are being infected by the gull virus and are looking out for such species. As Florida and US birders become more experienced with such species we may see an increase in records.

cheers for prompting the discussion