What is it?

[PeterD]

Dear all,

Can you please help with this identifying this bird.

379

Thank you

PeterD

[Colin Key]

Immature male Northern Shoveler (Anas clypeata). What time of year was it taken Peter?

Colin

[nickderry]

Male shoveler. I'd be interested to know how to tell it's a young male as opposed to an adult coming out of eclipse.

[PeterD]

Immature male Northern Shoveler (Anas clypeata). What time of year was it taken Peter?

Colin

Colin,

30th Jan 2008. Location - Lakes at Milton Common, Portsmouth, UK.

Thanks for the ID and thanks to you too Nick.

Could not ID this bird on the RSPB website.

PeterD

[Colin Key]

Male shoveler. I'd be interested to know how to tell it's a young male as opposed to an adult coming out of eclipse.

Nick,

That was why I asked when the photo was taken - it was not clear to me whether the plumage was "coming or going". I would agree that this is an adult coming out of eclipse.

Colin

[Colin Key]

Colin,

30th Jan 2008. Location - Lakes at Milton Common, Portsmouth, UK.

Thanks for the ID and thanks to you too Nick.

Could not ID this bird on the RSPB website.

PeterD

Peter,

Ducks, unless they they are "pure" males in breeding plumage, can often be a bit of a nightmare. The differences between sexes is huge, this dramatic change into post-breeding "eclipse" plumage, and the common possibility of hybridisation can be very confusing.

In the case of your bird it is the bill which very obviously defines the species (even in a silhouette with no plumage detail this could be I.D.'d as a "Shov").

I am wondering if you are using a good I.D. guide (rather than the RSPB website)? If not, I would suggest getting hold of the "Collins Bird Guide" by Svensson, Grant, Mullarney & Zetterstrom (Published by Harper Collins ISBN 0 00 219728 6). No problem at all with posting photos with a request for I.D. but from YOUR point of view I think you will actually LEARN more by attempting to match your sightings/photos with the excellent paintings and descriptions in this book as a first course of action.

As an ex university lecturer I am of the school: "No, I'm not telling you what it is, try working it out for yourself first and then you might remember it again next time". (Hope you take that in the light-hearted way it was intended. :wink:).

Cheers,

Colin :beer:

[PeterD]

Peter,

Ducks, unless they they are "pure" males in breeding plumage, can often be a bit of a nightmare. The differences between sexes is huge, this dramatic change into post-breeding "eclipse" plumage, and the common possibility of hybridisation can be very confusing.

In the case of your bird it is the bill which very obviously defines the species (even in a silhouette with no plumage detail this could be I.D.'d as a "Shov").

I am wondering if you are using a good I.D. guide (rather than the RSPB website)? If not, I would suggest getting hold of the "Collins Bird Guide" by Svensson, Grant, Mullarney & Zetterstrom (Published by Harper Collins ISBN 0 00 219728 6). No problem at all with posting photos with a request for I.D. but from YOUR point of view I think you will actually LEARN more by attempting to match your sightings/photos with the excellent paintings and descriptions in this book as a first course of action.

As an ex university lecturer I am of the school: "No, I'm not telling you what it is, try working it out for yourself first and then you might remember it again next time". (Hope you take that in the light-hearted way it was intended. :wink:).

Cheers,

Colin :beer:

Colin,

Firstly, I take no exception to your phrase
"No, I'm not telling you what it is, try working it out for yourself first and then you might remember it again next time".

I agree with the sentiment as it is the only way to learn. What threw me was the plumage. I agree it must be a shoveler as this is the shape of the beak on the RSPB website. There are three illustrations and none matched my photo with respect to the plumage.

I shall look up your suggestion for a bird guide. I could certainly do with one as the website has its limitations.

Thanks again, I appreciate very much your advice and comments.

PeterD

[Colin Key]

Peter,

Just beware that there are other (older and inferior) "Collins Bird Guides" out there, which is why I gave details of the authors and the ISBN number.

There is a new edition in the pipeline (I think they are now talking about 2009), but I would not let that put you off getting the current soft-cover edition.

It is a LOVELY book, not just as a field-guide, but as something to simply "peruse" (I also bought the large format hard-cover edition just for that purpose).

Colin

[PeterD]

Peter,

Just beware that there are other (older and inferior) "Collins Bird Guides" out there, which is why I gave details of the authors and the ISBN number.

There is a new edition in the pipeline (I think they are now talking about 2009), but I would not let that put you off getting the current soft-cover edition.

It is a LOVELY book, not just as a field-guide, but as something to simply "peruse" (I also bought the large format hard-cover edition just for that purpose).

Colin

Colin,

I have found this book on the web (amazon).

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Collins-Bird-Guide-Lars-Svensson/dp/0007267266/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1203108250&sr=1-3

Is this the one you recommend? Its the second edition and not yet published.

I am also considering the Butterfly book too.

I see what you mean about being careful. There are a lot of similar titles and editions out there.

Thanks again

PeterD

[Jurij Hanžel]

That's the new edition in prep Colin was referring to. The "old" (and the only one around at the moment) one has a Barn Owl on the cover. Here's the old one (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Collins-Bird-Guide-Complete-Britain/dp/0007113323/ref=pd_sim_b?ie=UTF8&qid=1203108250&sr=1-3)

[Joe stockwell]

i know an odd question but does anyone reckon that it will have allof the reckognised "new" rarities in it i.e caspian gull and so forth???

[PeterD]

That's the new edition in prep Colin was referring to. The "old" (and the only one around at the moment) one has a Barn Owl on the cover. Here's the old one (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Collins-Bird-Guide-Complete-Britain/dp/0007113323/ref=pd_sim_b?ie=UTF8&qid=1203108250&sr=1-3)

Thank you Jurij. Its out of stock at the moment but I have ordered it.

PeterD

[Colin Key]

i know an odd question but does anyone reckon that it will have allof the reckognised "new" rarities in it i.e caspian gull and so forth???

Not an odd question at all Joe, but I do not know the answer. The new edition is bound to have some of the more recent splits and re-classifications in it, but you have to accept that nothing is ever going to be completely up to date.

Colin

[PeterD]

Peter,

Ducks, unless they they are "pure" males in breeding plumage, can often be a bit of a nightmare. The differences between sexes is huge, this dramatic change into post-breeding "eclipse" plumage, and the common possibility of hybridisation can be very confusing.

In the case of your bird it is the bill which very obviously defines the species (even in a silhouette with no plumage detail this could be I.D.'d as a "Shov").

I am wondering if you are using a good I.D. guide (rather than the RSPB website)? If not, I would suggest getting hold of the "Collins Bird Guide" by Svensson, Grant, Mullarney & Zetterstrom (Published by Harper Collins ISBN 0 00 219728 6). No problem at all with posting photos with a request for I.D. but from YOUR point of view I think you will actually LEARN more by attempting to match your sightings/photos with the excellent paintings and descriptions in this book as a first course of action.

As an ex university lecturer I am of the school: "No, I'm not telling you what it is, try working it out for yourself first and then you might remember it again next time". (Hope you take that in the light-hearted way it was intended. :wink:).

Cheers,

Colin :beer:

Colin,

Thanks for your recommendation. I have the book now and its a good read and reference. I will not be asking too many questions now:smile:.

PeterD

[Colin Key]

Colin,

Thanks for your recommendation. I have the book now and its a good read and reference. I will not be asking too many questions now:smile:.

PeterD

Peter,

Glad you got the book, I am sure you will enjoy it. I wish that it had been available when I started birdwatching 50+ years ago - at the time the only book I had was "The Observers Book of Birds".

You will always need to ask questions and please do not hesitate to do so. The point I was trying to make (not rudely, or offensively, I hope) was that you will learn more (and more quickly) by trying to match what you see in the field with what you see and read in the book. It will probably also encourage you to make a few notes when you see a new bird so that you can go to the book with some factual "field data" to assist you in your search for an I.D. Much better and more self-satisfying than just asking "what is it?"

Good birding,

Colin

[PeterD]

[quote=Colin Key;5679]Peter,

Glad you got the book, I am sure you will enjoy it. I wish that it had been available when I started birdwatching 50+ years ago - at the time the only book I had was "The Observers Book of Birds".

You will always need to ask questions and please do not hesitate to do so. The point I was trying to make (not rudely, or offensively, I hope) was that you will learn more (and more quickly) by trying to match what you see in the field with what you see and read in the book. It will probably also encourage you to make a few notes when you see a new bird so that you can go to the book with some factual "field data" to assist you in your search for an I.D. Much better and more self-satisfying than just asking "what is it?"

Good birding,

Colin[/qoute]

Thanks Colin,

I understood what you meant and of course you are right.

I just posted a Dunnock today. It was my first real test using the book. Took me over an hour:eek: but I got there in the end:smile:.

PeterD

[Colin Key]

Well done Peter - saw your Dunnock photo, not bad (always a beautiful bird to see).

Colin

[macrourus]

Well, being done on 30th january instead its a joung male, as adult would be in perfect fully breeding plumage by this time of the year and would show much brighter yellow iris

Andrea C
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[Colin Key]

Well, being done on 30th january instead its a joung male, as adult would be in perfect fully breeding plumage by this time of the year and would show much brighter yellow iris

Andrea C

Not sure whether I fully understand this Andrea. Are you saying that this IS a juvenile (sub-adult) male? That was my first impression because the large numbers of wintering Shoveler in southern Portugal are already in breeding plumage when they arrive in late November.

Colin