Redpoll ID

[CleverBirdName]

I was hoping you guys could give me your opinions on this redpoll. It's the size of C. f. flammea, perhaps a bit smaller.

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[john robinson]

Difficult to judge size but looks like a Lesser to me.
JohnR

[CleverBirdName]

Wow, thanks for the quick reply John. I thought I had a night of checking the forum waiting for a reply ahead of me.

I am curious as to why you believe it's a Lesser? The extensive warm brown color, clear eye crescents...

Thanks again.

[john robinson]

I think it's "jizz "
I've got about thirty of these (lessers) in my garden at the moment and they look like this one of your's. I could be wrong. I am not really a bird ID man.
Cheers
JOhnR

[AndyB]

Hi CleverBirdName, does it look like quite a small-billed bird? Would agree with John, that it looks OK for Lesser Redpoll.

[Josh Jones]

A nice Lesser Redpoll (C. cabaret) - general brown wash all over, and buff on the flanks and wingbar (although whiter than in some). Also looks a slim, smallish bird.

Compare to this Mealy Redpoll (C. flammea):

http://www.fairislebirdobs.co.uk/Sightings/2007/PAAB/MealyRedpoll14_Feb07.jpg

[CleverBirdName]

Thanks to all for your comments.

What is the size difference between a typical C. cabaret and typical C. f. flammea. I have seen C. f. flammea that are miniscule (~10.5 cm in length) and larger (~12 cm), and C. f. rostrata which I have noticed also ranges from big for a redpoll to monstrous. I have also seen this variation in size with C. h. exilipes to C. h. hornemanni.

I imagine C. cabaret would display the same size differences as well. I have seen (only in pictures) color variations such as Josh mentioned with buffy wing bars to white wingbars. I have also seen pics of Lesser on breeding grounds that look quite similar to C. flammea.

The bird in question is well within the limits of Lesser? Or rather, if you saw this bird you would not think twice about it being a Lesser?

[Josh Jones]

The bird in question is well within the limits of Lesser? Or rather, if you saw this bird you would not think twice about it being a Lesser?

I wouldn't think twice about calling it Lesser if I saw it in the UK. In Scandinavia I would probably be a bit more hesitant. Such are the problems/joys of redpoll idenfication.

It does however seem to be perfectly normal for a Lesser from your images posted. The lack of bulk (as well as it not looking particularly big) also point to cabaret as opposed to flammea.

[CleverBirdName]

My reason for asking is because this pic was taken in the US. The bird was with a group of C. f. flammea, and one C. h. exilipes. It stood out immediately due to the size and coloration.

[Josh Jones]

My reason for asking is because this pic was taken in the US. The bird was with a group of C. f. flammea, and one C. h. exilipes. It stood out immediately due to the size and coloration.

I think :puzzled: sums it up nicely.

Shots of the rump would be nice...! Still would have no problem passing this off as a Lesser here in the UK (no problem at all!). As I said, Scandinavia would be a different story, and the US even more so! I was perhaps a bit brave to jump to conclusions without shots of the rump, though... still, cabaret is what we are used to over here.

[CleverBirdName]

The reason why I posted the bird here was to get opinions from those who are used to Lesser.

I have been lucky enough to come across MANY variations of Commons (flammea + rostrata) and of Hoary/Arctic (hornemanni + exilipes) and I have yet to come across another bird like this one.

I did not mention the location in the original post because I did not want it to get in the way. I wanted to see what people thought of the bird by itself.

It's interesting that it would be a straightforward ID in the UK, but in the states it's a different story.

I did not try to trick anyone, I just wanted an outside opinion.

For those interested, here is a link to a web-page displaying the variety of redpolls I've come across this season:

http://www.pbase.com/dberard/redpolls

[AndyB]

Good weblink there - lots of interesting photos

[CleverBirdName]

Thanks. The majority of these birds were at my feeders.

[AndyB]

Hi, what state are you in?

[CleverBirdName]

Massachusetts