Canon 1D MkIII - problems

[Birder Steve]

Just little over 2 weeks ago I received my new and much anticipated Canon 1D MKIII to replace my old Canon 20D. After reading the instruction manual and setting all of the parameters for auto focus etc I stepped into the garden to take some early test shots. Several fly over Black-headed Gulls and Collared Doves were captured to a very high quality using the Canon 500mm F4. As the light was excellent I was able to get these hand held. Well I was well impressed and up and running, well so I thought.

Since then and with more work with the camera I have found that majority of my shots are well below that I obtained with the 20D. The main problems are as follows:

Close objects 'can' be very good but anything that requires cropping to get a decent sized image proves that distant subjects just do not have definition. A Grey Heron and a local Ring-billed Gull has shown that anything over 20metres distance which requires some cropping has shown to be blurred at 1/1600th sec shutter speed at ISO200, something I just never got on the 20D.

Focusing is not always on target, i.e. focuses on the background or foreground far to often thus missed or blurred shots. I've even had to revert to manual focusing

Heavy grain, even at ISO 200 (mainly noticeable on crops) though could be that the sharpness had been set to maximum so will need to try this out again but even so....

Colour reproduction is hit and miss despite trying different shooting options

On Aperture Priority at least the camera just cannot seem to cope with different lighting, i.e. is often under or over exposed and I end having to manually adjust the stops up/down. The Ring-billed Gull today was in different lighting; sunlight, flat light etc and every time I had to stop up or down.

I have been aware that there has been issues with the focusing on this model and there was a firmware update prior to me purchasing the camera but I've not heard of anything on the other problems I've had.

Could it be that I have a duff camera body; or is it that the model itself is duff; or is it that I just have not set the camera up right.

The supplier who I bought the camera from had said that this was the most troublesome camera body release in years.

Any ideas or is anyone else out there having 1D difficulties

Steve

[Colin Key]

Steve,

Sorry to hear about your problems with the MkIII. I have been using this body with a 500 f/4 and 100-400 zoom since May last year and have not experienced the much publicised AF problems.

What is the serial number (first three digits only) of your body (mine is a very early #503xxx)?

I have read every post on every forum relating to the 1D MkIII. There definitely were some real "lemons" amongst early batches but a lot of people (especially new to 1D bodies) were also having problems setting up the camera's custom functions. The manual itself is not very good at explaining these and Canon have subsequently issued more explicit documentation in the form of PDFs (I will try to dig these out and post a link to them if you haven't already got them).

Just a couple of questions: are you shooting in RAW or JPEG (or both) and which AF point (or points) are you using? Do you have another long lens (400 f/5.6 or 100-400 zoom) and if so are you getting the same problems with other lenses?

I am surprised that you are getting heavy "noise" at ISO 200; my default ISO is 800 (I see no improvement in IQ at lower ISO) and I always shoot in RAW so there is no "in camera" processing (sharpness, colour, contrast, etc).

You say that you have had the camera just over two weeks - does your dealer have a returns policy (just in case you have been sold a "brick")?

Colin

[Birder Steve]

Hi Colin

I've not got the PDF so that would be helpful. I have revisted the manual and the CF settings several times and have made some improvements over some earlier attempts but still not as good as was expecting it to be.

The Serial number is 558### so after the earlier Canon issues, current firmware version 1.1.3

I printed some A4 hi res images today and they were so poor they went straight in the bin, something I hardly did before with the old camera.

I generally shoot at the largest Jpeg possible as processing RAW is a bit of a chore processing later but may have to if that will improve my results. I've only ever used Jpegs on the 20D as, for my purpose, the images were excellent and I was able to get more pics on the card.

I am shooting using Spot metering on AI servo with canon 500mm F4 lens. I have the selected to use the inner/centre 9 AF Points, again not sure if just using the inners is the right choice but when photographing birds the main target is generally in centre of frame.

I have a canon 100-400mm but have not used it much on the body, and not much after I got the 500mm a couple of years ago.

The noise on ISO 200 for example could(?) be as a result of in-camera sharpening as this was set to high. Again making comparisons with the 20D where sharpening was set at the highest level possible there was no discernable problem when doing resizing/post production of the images later on the PC and subsequent A4 sized printing. I don't over crop images as overall quailty will sink but this seems different to that seen on the older camera, it's simply not a sharp image rather than a result of over sharpening.

For instance shots taken in excellent light which has resulted in ISO100 with 1/2000th sec shutter speed at F7.1 should mean that even though the subject is a little distant cropping (about 1/3 of the overall image size) the image later should still result in a good picture but this doesn't happen. Over a certain distance the subject when cropped is just not sharp or crisp, again no problems with the 20D when doing this.

I've tried Standard and Faithful settings, both of which have not made a great deal of difference to the end result, not sure which would be best one so have basically tried most shots on Standard with sharpening quite high (i'll try with less sharpening to see if it that makes a difference).

The supplier is sending a replacement body incase this one is a paper weight which i'll trying out before sending the current one back but in case it's me being a complete twat with the settings any suggestions for improvement would be welcomed.

Basically my main points of concern are:
apparant noise on images where cropping has been done
images not sharp when greater than, say 10-15metres away

I can probably get around the colour reproduction and under/over exposure problems but if the end results are not sharp or are noisy then its a total waste.

[Colin Key]

Steve,

Attached is the Canon PDF supplement on AF settings for the 1D Mk III (and 1D MkIIIs).

This link might also be useful: http://www.wildlifeimagesbyles.net/Technique/1DIII_guide/1diii_guide.html

Since you are going to get a replacement body to try out I will not go into a lot of detail just now, except to say that I think it is imperative that you shoot in RAW and forget about JPEG. In addition to selecting the inner ring of 9 AF points you can also opt to use just the centre AF point, which is what I use (although with C.Fn III-8 you can enable either the two left and right AF points or the surrounding six AF points to "assist" with AF.

Your camera serial number is way outside the range of possibly affected bodies and you have the latest 1.1.3 firmware which is what I am using.

I am also attaching a couple of shots taken this morning of Grey Heron and Little Egret both with my 100-400 + a x1.4TCII (so they are not as sharp as I would expect with the bare zoom or with my 500 prime); these are approximately 40-50% crops of birds at about 60-70 metres range. I have converted from Raw to 8 bit TIFF in DPP and then done a minimum of processing in Photoshop Elements on my iMac (a bit of noise reduction, unsharp mask and then resized to 800 pixels max dimension) - how do they compare with what you are getting? I would be interested in seeing examples of what you consider your best and your worst.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/Passarinhos/0C0J5189.jpg
1/2500s f/8 at 560mm ISO 800


http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/Passarinhos/0C0J5346.jpg
1/8000s f/8 at 560mm ISO 800

Let me know how you get on with the replacement body. Best of luck.

Colin

[Birder Steve]

Hi Colin

Cheers for that, i'll try the assist points and give them a go when there's a break in the weather, it's been pretty grim for some time now hence poor light conditions:

I have attached a couple of shots. The Collared Dove is one of the very first shots taken when the camera arrived and is about a 50% crop. The Black-throated Diver is a near 80% crop (can't complain at that one) whilst the Ring-billed Gull are about 50% crops though in low light at ISO200 F7.1 and shutter speed of 1/1600th sec. I have tried printing the Ring-billed Gull (on water) and it has come out lacking definition, especially around the bill and face.

Perhaps I'm being overly critical

[Birder Steve]

I've just checked my C.FN settings and found that I had set it as centre with all of the assists 'switched' on.

[Colin Key]

Hi Colin

Cheers for that, i'll try the assist points and give them a go when there's a break in the weather, it's been pretty grim for some time now hence poor light conditions:

I have attached a couple of shots. The Collared Dove is one of the very first shots taken when the camera arrived and is about a 50% crop. The Black-throated Diver is a near 80% crop (can't complain at that one) whilst the Ring-billed Gull are about 50% crops though in low light at ISO200 F7.1 and shutter speed of 1/1600th sec. I have tried printing the Ring-billed Gull (on water) and it has come out lacking definition, especially around the bill and face.

Perhaps I'm being overly critical

These shots don't look all that bad to me, although it is difficult to tell sometimes with such small files. The diver certainly comes out well under those conditions, and the dove and swimming gull seem sharp enough and with lots of detail. I cannot see the "graininess" (noise) that you referred to above and the colours look O.K. too.

I would suggest going to your local duck pond and shooting some closer targets at different settings and see what the image quality is like. I would push up the ISO to 400 or even 800 to get the fastest shutter speed, especially if you are hand-holding.

I have tried using the "assist" AF points (both left and right and the surrounding six) but have gone back to just the single centre point. I found that when shooting a static bird in One Shot or AI Servo the AF would "hunt" with the assist points enabled.

Cheers,

Colin

[Joe stockwell]

i cirtainly would not be diss-pleased with those shots, and they don't look "soft" andthe exposures seem very accurate, but as colin said, shoot RAW he converted me and i havent looked back (although my hd wishes i would)

[Colin Key]

i cirtainly would not be diss-pleased with those shots, and they don't look "soft" andthe exposures seem very accurate, but as colin said, shoot RAW he converted me and i havent looked back (although my hd wishes i would)

You just have to be VERY strict with yourself Joe and trash all duplicates (from a burst of shots) and anything which looks at all "iffy".

I did about 500 shots this morning and kept only 7 of them.

Cheers,

Colin

[Joe stockwell]

ah well so keeping 8000 rubish images and 50 good ones is a bad idea!

[Birder Steve]

Most of the time the camera set up is tripod mounted, only when the light allows would I go hand held.

The images supplied look fine at 700dpi width but at 1000dpi width or go for printing they just don't stand up very well, except for the dove which at 1/2500th(ish) sec is very sharp.

I'll just have to keep fiddling with the settings and get a bigger CF card for all those RAW images I will be taking

many thanks

Steve

[Firstlight]

Hi BirderSteve,
If you have not already done so, suggest you visit,
www.fredmiranda.com
www.birdforum.com
www.dpreview.com
You will get a wider response in the canon forums, and on birdforum for sure, under the canon sub forum on page 3 or 4 you will find suggestions for settings etc.
Hope this helps in some small way.
regards David.

[Colin Key]

Hi BirderSteve,
If you have not already done so, suggest you visit,
www.fredmiranda.com
www.birdforum.com
www.dpreview.com
You will get a wider response in the canon forums, and on birdforum for sure, under the canon sub forum on page 3 or 4 you will find suggestions for settings etc.
Hope this helps in some small way.
regards David.

David,

You are sending Steve into the dens of iniquity, certainly as far as DPR is concerned. The info on BF is total bull$hit regarding this camera. FM is the only place to get a sensible overview but even there some of the Yanks are just "trolling" and many of the most prolific posters do not even own the camera. Believe me, I have read it ALL.

Colin

[Birder Steve]

After continuing and failing to get any shots that I was really happy with I ended up getting a replacement body from the supplier and low and behold instant improvement. I more or less had to try it out on a birding trip to Texas as it arrived the day before I left but it does seem that I had rough one first time round. Much happier with the results with the replacement.

That said I am still having a little trouble in getting the depth of field, especially on much closer subjects. Shots using the 1D MKIII from Texas can be found on my website, as well as a summary/review of the body, at www.birdersplayground.co.uk

All images before March 08 were with the old 20D.

Many thanks for all the assistance

Steve

[AndyB]

Hi Steve, enjoyed your warbler photos from Texas. Our paths must have crossed reading your trip report from this spring. I think we were at Sabine at the same time - also on the same 4pm rail walk at Anahuac. Great Yellow Rail but shame no Black :hmpf:

[Colin Key]

Very pleased to hear that your new Mk III body is an improvement (are you using firmware version 1.2.3 ?) Steve. Just had a quick dip into your website to look at some of the Texas shots - very, very nice. I have always maintained that the Yanks have a head start when it comes to bird photography - we can never get that close to birds in Europe, they seem to have a much larger "comfort zone".

All the best,

Colin

[Birder Steve]

Hi Steve, enjoyed your warbler photos from Texas. Our paths must have crossed reading your trip report from this spring. I think we were at Sabine at the same time - also on the same 4pm rail walk at Anahuac. Great Yellow Rail but shame no Black :hmpf:

I was at Sabine Woods on two consecutive days, the first there was an afternoon downpoor followed by a flood of birds. And yep was on the rail walk that failed to turn up the Black, one for another visit I guess.

all the best

[Birder Steve]

Even in the hides in the UK you just can't get tat close to the birds. Where ever I go outside of the UK birds are so much more easy to get close to, egrets elsewhere can be more or less walked up to and they don't seem bothered but back here there up and away if you get within half a mile.

An excuse to keep going abroad

all the best

Steve:lovegulls:

[FayJ]

Even in the hides in the UK you just can't get tat close to the birds. Where ever I go outside of the UK birds are so much more easy to get close to, egrets elsewhere can be more or less walked up to and they don't seem bothered but back here there up and away if you get within half a mile.

An excuse to keep going abroad

all the best

Steve:lovegulls:

Agreed. I have birded and photographed birds abroad, outside Europe, and it seems to be so much easier. Maybe it's because the birds in some other places outside Europe haven't suffered centuries of persecution and being shot at.