Long-toed or Temminck's Stint

[PaulHopkins]

Check out the video I uploaded as Long-toed Stint. It has been suggested it may actually be a Temminck's but I still come down in the Long-toed camp!

What do people think?

Link below

http://surfbirds.com/video2/view_video.php?viewkey=650923ea331c15af3b16

[Red-eyed Video]

My reasons for suggesting it is a Temminck's and not a Long-toed are based on my limited knowledge of LTS in Hong Kong in the early '90's so I stand to be corrected. In fact I hesitated to p.m. you with over 100 unquestioning viewings of your video.

To my eyes LTS looks like a Sharp-tailed Sandpiper in miniature with a slightly drooping bill, Little Stint like tramlines and a distinctive cap. The toes aren't visible in your video but I feel there is enough there to suggest Temminck's on plumage alone.

I'm sure some of the more experienced members will put us right either way. (More experienced than me I might add!)

[Colin Key]

Paul,

Fabulous footage. I have no experience at all with Long-toed Stint, but having watched this sequence a couple of times it does not exactly scream "Temmincks" to me.

Colin

[Jim McConnell]

Hi Paul,

I had a small group of Long-toed with one Temminck's at same pond in Thailand in early April last year. They did not associate together, which is not relevant really but of interest generally. All of the Long-toed Stints I saw looked very similar to yours in posture and clear definition of mottling generally, but were rustier. The Temminck's, however, was much more washed out white and grey than your bird, and perhaps chunkier and shorter necked. I imagine you are probably right in thinking Long-toed, but I don't begrudge the Temminck's suggestion for it is rather gray, and the neck is not extended as far as it can be when Long-toed look up for danger.

Sincerely, Jim

P.S. Any answers to my reply to your spoon-bill pics?

[chris butterworth]

Hi Paul
Certainly suggests Long-toed to me as it doesn't seem 'plain' enough for Temminck's and, even though the video is of a bathing bird, Temmincks always seem to be less 'perky' and more attenuated at the rear
Chris

[JanJ]

As Colin mentioned - it doesn´t scream Temminck´s, in fact I don´t see Temminck´s at all. I would expect a winiter plumaged (or it is perhaps a first summer bird, difficult to see properly in the video, as are the outer tail feathers) Temminck´s not to have dark centered scapulars (not to be confused with Temminck´s summer patterned scapulars) and the long-legged impresion one gets when the bird walks on dry land. Further more jizz is different from Temminck´s, not the round-headed and somewhat shorter-billed impression of Temminck´s, just to mention a few characters.

See them together:

http://digdeep1962.blogspot.com/2007/10/oct-20th-juru-penang-and-malim-nawar.html

http://shorebirds.exblog.jp/pg/blog.asp?eid=c0071489&iid=75&acv=&dif=&opt=1&srl=3575126&dte=2006%2D02%2D24+22%3A19%3A00%2E000

http://homepage2.nifty.com/stints/calidris/temmincks.html

http://www.alsirhan.com/Birds/images/Temminck's_Stint_T500.jpg

Long-toed is my vote

JanJ

[marklhawkes]

I have watched the video a few times, and if you play around with the play/pause button, on several frames around the 10th and 11th second of footage, it appear the outer tail feathers are white throughout their length. However, this isn't viewable when it preens its tail, but I think that is because of the angle of the tail feathers.

[Yoav]

Guys, it's time to get to the bottom line.
This is a Long-toed Stint. This is exactly how they should look like in February. Jans' first link is excellent in comapring the two species.
The structure is diagnostic for long toed- long legs, especially tibia, long neck. Breast pattern is good, also head pattern is too strong for temminck's. In February temmick's are very plain grey above, with a neat grey pectoral band, with a totally different structure - much more elongated rear and shorter legs.

Yoav.

[Red-eyed Video]

Okay, Okay, it's a Long-toed Stint, lesson learnt. I'll stick to gulls in future. :wink:

[PaulHopkins]

I'm glad the consensus is that it is a Long toed stint as I had burnt a fair few DVD's with it called one.

I have a 90 minute Thailand 2008 DVD for £15 plus postage if anybody wants one.

Paul

[forktail]

Guys, it's time to get to the bottom line.
This is a Long-toed Stint. This is exactly how they should look like in February. Jans' first link is excellent in comapring the two species.
The structure is diagnostic for long toed- long legs, especially tibia, long neck. Breast pattern is good, also head pattern is too strong for temminck's. In February temmick's are very plain grey above, with a neat grey pectoral band, with a totally different structure - much more elongated rear and shorter legs.

Yoav.

yes, as has been stated many times already, LTS. I feel a bit awkward doing the 'agreeing' thing that you find on other forums but I would add that the tail of a Temminck's would look longer (notably past the wing) and the bird would appear more 'attenuated' or 'drawn out' at the rear. The photo is a little confusing as it doesn't really capture the characterisitic jizz of LTS, although it does look 'leggy'. The dark scapular interiors are also distinctive and different from temminckii, which has pretty plain scaps at this time

[Sherpa]

It's a cast-iron Long-toed Stint. If you see a few Temminck's from time to time, you can see it is not right for that species.

But there is one interesting point here. I think many UK birders are unaware of what a Long-toed will look like in winter. If you expect all Long-toed Stints to look like the Saltholme Pools 1982 juvenile, you will overlook a bird like the one in the video.

[tsuru]

I'd come down on it being a Temminck's in a number of ways. All Long-toed, in any plumage, do not look like your video so not sure why one would think Long-toed unless someone can state the definitive reason so.
Monte Taylor
tsuru8@yahoo.com
http://www.tsuru-bird.net

[pete]

I'd come down on it being a Temminck's in a number of ways. All Long-toed, in any plumage, do not look like your video so not sure why one would think Long-toed unless someone can state the definitive reason so.
Monte Taylor
tsuru8@yahoo.com
http://www.tsuru-bird.net

It's a clear Long-toed for the many reasons stated in the many and detailed replies above. Perhaps it would be better for you to state why you believe it isn't and why you think it's a Temminck's!

Cheers

Pete

[gandytron]

another comparison of February LTS and Temminck's on my blog here: http://electricbirding.blogspot.com/2010/02/17th-feb-2010.html

Your birds is clearly LTS.