Posting HD videos in HD

[David_Ellsworth]

I've been shooting HD video of birds for 2 years now — 1 year with a Sony HDR-HC1, and another year so far with an HDR-FX7. However, I'd not posted any of my footage; my main excuse was, I didn't know a good way to deliver it in HD rather than down-converted SD.

I'd like to finally start posting clips now. I've begun by posting an American Golden-Plover clip, in what I would consider semi-HD. This is intended to share a rare sighting and allow the bird's jizz to be fully appreciated, but it is also very much a test post to see if posting in HD is feasible.

The main test here is if an XviD-encoded clip of 960x720 or higher at 60 fps can be viewed on a multitude of systems. On a PC, installing ffdshow (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=53761) should do the trick (it's what I use for playback). On a Macintosh, this download should do the trick:
http://www.xvidmovies.com/mac/

My video is here: http://www.sendspace.com/file/uzbfwl

It's 30 seconds and 30 MB. Perhaps that's a tad excessive, but since this is a test, and since I intend to post more videos if this goes well, excessive is good. The compression ratio is low enough that the video quality is virtually the same as the source on tape (or better, because the source was effectively a handheld digiscope shot and very shakey; the posted video has been run through Deshaker (http://www.guthspot.se/video/deshaker.htm)).

[Colin Key]

Thanks David, I have had a quick look at that link. I'm just off out and don't want to start downloading now but will do so later tonight or tomorrow and get back to you on whether it works or not.

I thought your "test" video was bloody good so I am keen to see what this HD version looks like.

Cheers,

Colin :beer:

[AndyB]

Hi David, there's been a lot of discussion on other video sharing forums about the need to be able to easily share HD on the web. Most web users have limited patience and if they have a choice between watching something now or waiting 10mins to download something (that may also require plug-ins after download) they'll likely go for the "now" option.

I know a bunch of people have been pushing youtube to play back hd. I believe vimeo.com allows hd uploads and encodes hd flash (if there is such a thing!).

Like Colin, I did download your file - took about 10mins but I was missing some plugins which I've yet to download. The compromise I make before posting on surfbirds, which others have tried on youtube to at least improve the quality of hd material is encode to flash before upload. I think youtube has now prohibited this or at least maybe it doesn't play back correctly. I use Sorenson squeeze for flash (after exporting a 1280x720 h264 QT from imovie), I then create a 640x480 cropped .flv flash file (you can choose the streaming speed but obviously the lower is better for quick playback but there's a trade-off in resolution). Or you can not crop it and just letterbox. Surfbirds lets you upload flash and it plays back fine. Maybe youtube does now I'm not sure.

here's a cropped example
http://surfbirds.com/video2/view_video.php?viewkey=1059396431415e770c6d
and some skimmers from your local patch:
http://surfbirds.com/video2/view_video.php?viewkey=750899bb03d998e63186

Don Desjardin also shoots HD and his videos are also worth checking it out although he doesn't convert to flash beforehand eg:
http://surfbirds.com/video2/view_video.php?viewkey=ab2d6180b0bca7e46b6f&
you can click the screen button on right side of player to see his videos letterboxed. DaveJ is someone else who shoots HD too I think.

I wasn't aware of the deshaker software. I'm going to take a look at that.

Anyway, judging by your plover video, you've got some great videos to post and look forward to seeing them. Another service I find useful is sendthisfile.com - less ads than some of the other file sharing sites.

[David_Ellsworth]

Hi Andy. Good to see that there's site that allows HD flash — I'll have to try that. I wonder if it'd allow anamorphic 1440x540. Have you posted any of yours in HD? I'd really like to see at least one of your videos in all its HD glory.

Your bird banding video is really good! I've never been at a banding before, and that gives me a feeling for what it's like. Did you film it with the fact that it'd be cropped to 4:3 in mind?

BTW, very often when I watch videos on a flash site like YouTube, Surfbirds or Vimeo, instead of watching it in their little box, or using the little box's "full screen" feature (which really isn't full screen, and has severe limitations), I rename the corresponding file in my browser's cache to *.flv and play it back with my preferred player. This requires using ffdshow and FLVSplitter, but as an upshot it also allows me to view 16:9 videos that haven't been letterboxed in their proper aspect ratio. Is there any corresponding trick on the Mac?

It's strange that your download of my video took 10 minutes. That would mean the bandwidth really was only about 50KB/s, as the site claims the limit is. When I downloaded my own video right after uploading it, it took less than 1 minute. I've tried again just now, and it really does go by at 60KB/s or so. Well, I'll try sendthisfile.com.

Deshaker is for Windows only, but apparently there is iStabilize (http://www.pixlock.com/index.php?Itemid=33&id=13&option=com_content&task=view) for MacOS X. It takes a VERY long time for Deshaker to do its job, and there are two passes. I imagine it'd be similar with iStabilize.

[AndyB]

I haven't uploaded any bird videos to to vimeo yet, just here but I'll try one next time around. I'm not sure my HD videos are that pristine that they don't actually benefit by being cropped and reduced in size! It takes forever to make the HD QTs and they take up so much disc space I delete them off my hard drive afterwards. I try not to think about the 4:3 aspect ratio and if there's anything that needs to be letterboxed then I don't crop. Look forward to seeing more of your videos. There's a plethora of mediums to show them off these days and great to see some good birding ones.

[Colin Key]

David,

I have managed to download the necessary additional component which Quicktime requires to play HD vid on a Mac (there is some ambiguity in the download instructions on the site you link to).

The video began to play O.K. but then "froze" about one-third the way through and continued as a jerky sequence of stills. Tried playing it several times with the same result except that it freezes at a different point each time.

I said that I thought your original "test" video which you uploaded was excellent, and it is, but I honestly do not see any significant improvement in image quality on the larger screen HD version. But that could be my aging eyesight!

Colin

[David_Ellsworth]

Colin, could you tell me the specs of your iMac? Probably it's not fast enough to play 60fps 960x720 video at the high bandwidth at which I encoded it. Does your player have an option to play in slowmo? That'd almost certainly avoid the freezing.

Vimeo has a 24fps limit on HD. Ouch. I don't want to do framerate decimation on my videos (I'd have to decimate to 20fps to avoid stutter), so what I'm probably going to do is post some clips there at super-slowmo (2.5x slower than normal). Though that means there can be no natural soundtrack.

Andy, the videograbs you post show much more detail than the corresponding posted videos. The eastern and western Willet make a good example. I don't understand your argument about your HD videos not being good enough to post in HD. You don't have to post at full res, of course... 960x540 might be a good compromise. Although if you post on Vimeo, you should probably keep in mind the 24fps limit (if you upload 30fps like you have on Surfbirds, it's gonna get stuttery from Vimeo's conversion to 24fps).

[Red-eyed Video]

. The compression ratio is low enough that the video quality is virtually the same as the source on tape (or better, because the source was effectively a handheld digiscope shot and very shakey; the posted video has been run through

Hi David

It's great to hear from someone who also uses a Sony FX7. I've only had mine a couple of months but I'm very impressed with the results. I'm resigned to the fact that there has to be a big compromise between quality and usability for uploaded video. To quote Andy, "Most web users have limited patience and if they have a choice between watching something now or waiting 10mins to download something (that may also require plug-ins after download) they'll likely go for the "now" option." which I thoroughly agree with.

I'm also a mac user so I haven't tried to download your clip due to time & incompatibility but it was your last paragraph that put me off trying, not wishing to offend but to me shaky video is equivalent to out of focus photos, not good to look at & usually avoidable by using a tripod.

Please continue to post any useful links to help the cause, video on the net is coming of age but still has a long way to go to catch up with the stills boys don't you think?

[David_Ellsworth]

Hi, Red-eyed Video! I had to do a double-take at your nickname to see that it was a play on words (at first glance I thought it was "Vireo").

Good to hear from another HDR-FX7 user. What do you do with your videos? Do you take the camcorder with you on most outings or do you reserve it for special filming sessions? If the former — what's your solution for carrying it? I'm curious, because I had to resort to a rather unorthodox solution for carrying it while providing quick access.

I'm also a mac user so I haven't tried to download your clip due to time & incompatibility but it was your last paragraph that put me off trying, not wishing to offend but to me shaky video is equivalent to out of focus photos, not good to look at & usually avoidable by using a tripod.
That's the thing, the video I posted is not at all shaky, in fact it's buttery smooth. I ran it through Deshaker, which works extremely well provided the source material was filmed at a fast shutter speed. Did you look at the non-HD preview version (http://surfbirds.com/video2/view_video.php?viewkey=e9753913f4d435b53c30)? The reason I even mentioned the shakiness was to bring Deshaker to people's attention. I've seen a lot of shaky videos on Surfbirds that could benefit quite a bit from this technology. (Though, with so many Mac users here, Deshaker itself is rather moot... still, there is iStabilize.)

[Colin Key]

Colin, could you tell me the specs of your iMac? Probably it's not fast enough to play 60fps 960x720 video at the high bandwidth at which I encoded it. Does your player have an option to play in slowmo? That'd almost certainly avoid the freezing.



David,

The spec of my iMac is 2.16 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 1 Gb memory, 667 MHz DDR2 SDRAM.

I do not appear to have the option to play the video in slow motion and in "fast forward" it does nothing. I have found that if I "pause" as soon as it freezes and then "play" it will go on a bit longer at normal speed but then freeze again.

Colin

[David_Ellsworth]

The spec of my iMac is 2.16 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 1 Gb memory, 667 MHz DDR2 SDRAM.That should be more than enough to play the video smoothly. Probably the Mac XviD plugin just isn't efficient (blame whoever ported the plugin, it's not the Mac's fault). I guess I'll have to go with another format. Well, thanks for trying, Colin :-)

[Red-eyed Video]

Good to hear from another HDR-FX7 user. What do you do with your videos? Do you take the camcorder with you on most outings or do you reserve it for special filming sessions? If the former — what's your solution for carrying it? I'm curious, because I had to resort to a rather unorthodox solution for carrying it while providing quick access.


That's the thing, the video I posted is not at all shaky, in fact it's buttery smooth. I ran it through Deshaker, which works extremely well provided the source material was filmed at a fast shutter speed. Did you look at the non-HD preview version (http://surfbirds.com/video2/view_video.php?viewkey=e9753913f4d435b53c30)? The reason I even mentioned the shakiness was to bring Deshaker to people's attention. I've seen a lot of shaky videos on Surfbirds that could benefit quite a bit from this technology. (Though, with so many Mac users here, Deshaker itself is rather moot... still, there is iStabilize.)

No I hadn't viewed the surfbirds clip, I have now and it's fantastic! And so is the little iMovie plug-in I found here (http://www.imovieplugins.com/index.html) called Adjust Size which zooms in like a cropped image for just 4.50 USD. I also downloaded a trial version of piStabilize which worked wonders on some wind blown video clips and is a must have purchase rather than the Manfrotto 058 tripod I was considering! Cheaper and kinder on my back. :eek:

In answer to your questions I post videos here and elsewhere on the web, burn trip reports to DVD for sale to other participants & present to bird clubs etc.

I take the camera wherever I go if I can as I usually come back with some footage. I mount it on a Swarovski (Manfrotto) tripod with a 503 head carried on my shoulder to allow for speedy set-up. I never take hand-held wildlife video and usually have the camera set on manual focus & shutter speed at 1000 and adjust up or down depending on the light etc.

What's your unorthodox method?


p.s. nice mac you have there Colin. Mine's the 20" 2 GHz Intel Core Duo, 1.5 GB 667 MHz DDR2 SDRAM with about 20 GB of 250 GB hard drive left!

[David_Ellsworth]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the compliment!

I carry my HDR-FX7 in a Tamron case designed to be slung over the shoulder — but I wear it around my waist like a belt pack. A real belt pack has a clasp; this doesn't, so I have to pull it on. The weight of the camera impedes my walking somewhat. But I can pull out the camera very quickly, making it less likely I'll miss a fleeting footage opportunity. I sometimes carry a tripod in a tripod backpack (especially if I know in advance it'll come in handy), but I primarily film handheld.

Given that you carry the camera on a tripod over your shoulder — do you use binoculars? If so, how do you multitask the tripod-carrying and bino-wielding?

Cool to hear that deshaking is useful to you! I'm curious though — given that the HDR-FX7 has optical stabilization, how is it that you have tripod footage that's shaky? Do you use a tele add-on lens? In my experience even a strong wind has no noticable effect on tripod footage unless I have my Raynox DCR-2020PRO conversion lens attached, in which case the slightest bit of wind becomes a real nuisance, mandating the use of Deshaker.

[Red-eyed Video]

Given that you carry the camera on a tripod over your shoulder — do you use binoculars? If so, how do you multitask the tripod-carrying and bino-wielding?

Cool to hear that deshaking is useful to you! I'm curious though — given that the HDR-FX7 has optical stabilization, how is it that you have tripod footage that's shaky? Do you use a tele add-on lens? In my experience even a strong wind has no noticable effect on tripod footage unless I have my Raynox DCR-2020PRO conversion lens attached, in which case the slightest bit of wind becomes a real nuisance, mandating the use of Deshaker.

Hi David,

Good question! I balance the fully extended tripod with camera attached over my shoulder holding the tripod in position with my forearm while I raise my binoculars. If there's something to film I drop the tripod to the ground ( I hope you know what I mean :eek: ) drawing each leg out while flicking the switch to camera mode in one movement ready to hit the record button.

I was in a hide at my local nature reserve yesterday and the wind was gusting in making all of my footage shaky, mainly because I use the camera at full zoom most of the time with a Sony VCL-HG1758 lens attached. I swear one of the hides was moving too, the wind was that strong. I managed some half decent video of Sandwich Tern & Yellow-legged Gull, both scarcities in land-locked Northants.