Egret ID

[AndyB]

Drew Weber posted some photos and video of a potential Little Egret in Pennslyvania. The bird is obviously no Snowy Egret but just interested in other opinions if it looks like a classic Little Egret:
http://blog.birderswiki.com/
http://picasaweb.google.com/DevinBosler/LittleEgretEgrettaGarzettaGarzetta02

Compared to a Snowy, it's a big-billed bird with a pale lower mandible. How easy would it be to pick out a white morph Western Reef though?
http://flickr.com/photos/deomurari/2013702684/
http://www.pbase.com/peterzwitser/image/87554826

[Yoav]

To my eyes, it's seems wrong for Little Egret. The bill shape and colour, and extensive yellow-green on tibia & tarsus look much better for Western Reef. I have no field experience with Snowy, but it certainly doesn't look like one.

[Colin Key]

I would go along with Yoav on this one (and, like him, I have no experience of Snowy Egret). I am very familiar with Little, have seen pure Western Reefs (light and dark) and also some questionable intergrades which no-one would be prepared to I.D. positively.

It is a pity that the photos are not better quality. When I have seen Little and Western Reef side by side the one physical factor which stood out, irrespective of any plumage variation or colour of bare parts, was that Western Reef has a significantly thicker-based bill with a slightly decurved lower mandible, and that is what I think I can see here.

Colin

[Drew Weber]

Just to respond to some of the comments on what appears to be a slightly decurved lower mandible in my pictures. The lower mandible appeared straight while we were actually viewing it. It may look decurved due to the fact that the upper mandible was completely black and the lower mandible was black on the outer 1/3. This seemed to make it look decurved.

[Colin Key]

Hi Drew,

I have just spent ten minutes or so looking again at all the available photos. As with everything like this, a slightly different aspect of the bird appears to show different features but I am now fairly certain that this is NOT a Little Egret and, despite what you say, in some shots that thick-based bill does look slightly de-curved to my eyes.

Colin

[Drew Weber]

So, how variable is the lore color in juvenile W. Reef Herons. This bird seemed pretty dark in the lores, despite what the pictures seem to show.

[AndyB]

Hi all, Mike Prince at bubo.org has posted some very instructive photos and summary of some birds in India:
http://www.bubo.org/photo/030507_WesternReefEgret/notesindex.htm
Bill on Western Reef seems to curve to the tip on the upper mandible. Check out the two close ups of Little and Reef on Mike's page. The length of the bill in relation to size of head is marked. Reef seems to be 30% longer bill than Little. Just doing some quick measurements from back of head to gape and gape to tip of bill. On Mike's Reef, bill is 2.7 times longer than gape to back of head and on Little it's 1.92. Now, this is just 1 bird so completely unscientific!

Drew's bird seems to have a bill length to head ratio more in line with the Little but I do agree that for some reason this bird looks odd for a Little and it's interesting that Yoav (who must see bother species regularly) also thought so.

Also, according to bubo page, lore, bill and leg color seems to be variable and poorly understood.

[forktail]

As Andy intimates, the lower mandible of WRE is straight not decurved - it's the upper mandible that has a noticeable curve to it, towards the end. The 'Indian' birds, however, are schistacea - the West African birds are gularis which is according to Shirihai often identical to Little including in terms of bill size and general

I wasn't aware bill length was a good feature - it's 'longer' on WRE but hard to see especially on lone birds. Maybe the photos will help here

Lores of WRE vary and according to some sources can be greyish on gularis but I have never seen this race.

I, too, have never really looked at Snowy Egret - any chance is could be a slightly odd one?

F.

[JanJ]

I was under the impression that gularis is similar to schistacea, at least in bill shape (might be near Little in thickness but still with the WRH shape so to speak) but gularis differ in bill colour, dark brown during breeding and paler brown in non-breeding.
In schistacea is more or less yellow all year round with variable dark parts on upper mandible but never black as in Little, but note in the White birds in the end of this link:

http://www.tarsiger.com/gallery/index.php?sp=find&lang=fin&order=englanti,paiva%20DESC&species=western+reef+egret&pic_type=englanti

A bird from Senegal:

http://flickr.com/photos/jgrave/2237215871/

Note the bill shape of the N.A vagrant together with some notes here:

http://stokesbirdingblog.blogspot.com/2006/08/possible-western-reef-heron-contd.html

and a Spain bird here:

http://www.rarebirdspain.net/arbsf026.htm

Egypt:

http://www.natureblink.com/egretta_gul.htm

The Pennsylvanian bird looks like a Little in my eyes - also seen here:

http://picasaweb.google.com/drewweber/LittleEgretAtOctoraraLake

but I find it difficult to be sure from the images alone.

Some Little, note the dark morph:

http://www.tarsiger.com/gallery/index.php?lista=ok&species=7830&family=&sp=search&lang=eng&manner=&sel=2&sex=0&age=0&year=&photo=&pic_method=0&pic_type=0&country=&place=&order=lisays_paiva+DESC&sel=2

JanJ

[Colin Key]

As Andy intimates, the lower mandible of WRE is straight not decurved -.......
F.

After looking at many photos on the web today, including some in the links provided by Jan, and having seen several WRE in the field (as well as hundreds of Little Egrets every day for comparison), I would contest that assertion. It might be subtle, and I would agree that in some individuals it appears straight, but in many/most WREs there is a detectable decurvature to the lower mandible which is not shown by Little Egret.

Colin

[forktail]

I was under the impression that gularis is similar to schistacea, at least in bill shape (might be near Little in thickness but still with the WRH shape so to speak) but gularis differ in bill colour, dark brown during breeding and paler brown in non-breeding.


Hi Jan

yes, according to Shirihai some white morphs are virtually identical to Little (size, structure, bill size and shape)!

I've never been able to get into egrets but after a bit of scanning i can't see why it's not a Little either?

F.

[chris butterworth]

I have to agree with those who are going with WRE. The shape and weight of the bill is "wrong" for LE, too heavy and with a distinctly curved culmen, the neck seems too stout and the legs just a bit too thick. The thing with WRE/LE is that differences are very subtle, at times to subtle to show on morphological measurments, but there is an overall 'jizz' to each species. I know 'jizz' is very subjective but in a case like this it can be instructive.

[macrourus]

Sorry, I'm not experto on herons and co., but I cant' see anything wrong on this bird for a juv. Little Egret. Sometimes Egretta garzetta show on juv. wholly pale legs, also yellowish or even wholly gree-yellow...I've seen quite many like so and there are also some notes about on british birds and dutch birding. Also the bill is rather variable, in both colour and shape when they are young (for some months after fledging)...

For any WRE of both taxa the tibia lenght is far too long and narrow... they both have shorter and thicker tibia... (also tarsus in one taxa)... Also the neck its too serpentine and narrow and long to my eye but I could be wrong on that.
White morph are extremely similar but not identical !

Ciao

Andrea C
________
Sexyopium (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/cam/sexyopium/)

[Drew Weber]

Unfortunately the bird has not been seen since so no further observations or quality pictures could be taken. Its a shame that it never got close enough for adequate documentation.