Desert Wheatear Suffolk

[beltonbirder]

Went to see the Desert Wheatear at Easton Bavents Southwold yesterday. a very confiding bird as was the one here in 1990. The event was spoiled yet again by an ignoramus who in front of everyone else decided to get as close to the bird as possible and feed it mealworms whilst taking photographs with a well endowed lens.

It annoys me that the Suffolk years listers and birders can behave themselves but a "Stranger" seems to think it is ok to just, for his own means

Disturb not only the bird but the view of other birders watching it.

Other incidents of ignoramus's have in the past including tape luring a Dusky Warbler at Lowestoft in 2006.

:certifiable:

[forktail]

The only solution is to ask them politely to step back and then tell them very loudly and clearly what you think if they don't. And if a few people support you, even better.

I can't imagine that failing.

[snowfinch]

Not unusual these days,photographers seem to think the have a given right to do what they want and sod the rest of us. This new craze of throwing mealworms seems to be increasing as well.It happened at the Norfolk Bluetail and the Sea Palling shrike, both incidents by so called good birders(joke) they are just shelfish *******. Bring back the days when we watched the bird carefully taking notes and making sketches. Not the tick and run crowds of the modern era.

[Brian S]

"Bring back the days when we watched the bird carefully taking notes and making sketches. Not the tick and run crowds of the modern era"

It was so late when I got to the site on Tues that I had to run and then tick, still in my snazzy PE-teaching shorts.

Brian S

[MichaelF]

The bird's welfare comes first.

If a photographer (or other birder) deliberately (or accidentally through excessive pressure) disturbs a bird to get photos, that is not acceptable.

If a photographer (or other birder) supplies mealworms for the bird to eat (at a time when it is likely to be very hungry after a lengthy sea crossing) and without otherwise harassing it, that is beneficial to the bird's welfare, and I would say is acceptable.

Michael

[marklhawkes]

Can't say I agree michael... mealworms were suggested as reasons why the Scilly Cream coloured Courser and Ovenbird may have died (something to do with these vagrant species not being used to this food source, and as a consequence they became posioned).

A similar thing has been mentioned for vagrant Yellow/Black-billed Cuckoos eating European caterpillars, but at least these are not forced under the nose of the bird in question. It's a marval of nature that these species make it to our shores, and they should be left to the fate of mother nature....

[Colin Key]

Might I just refer you chaps to a recent thread of mine:

http://www.surfbirds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4193

Colin :realmad:

[MichaelF]

Can't say I agree michael... mealworms were suggested as reasons why the Scilly Cream coloured Courser and Ovenbird may have died (something to do with these vagrant species not being used to this food source, and as a consequence they became posioned).
Doubt it. Mealworms are very generalised insects, not toxic, and feeding on a non-toxic diet (a lot of toxic insects acquire their toxicity by storing plant toxins from their food). Mealworms are widely used on bird feeders in the USA, and while Ovenbirds don't usually visit feeders, some other Parulids take them readily.

The C-cC I'd have thought more likely died from being in wet conditions, not in a desert - for starters, it probably won't have much waterproofing or wet chill resistance, but more importantly, it won't have much (if any) resistance to mould diseases associated with humid conditions, like Aspergillosis. I know that Aspergillosis has been implicated in the poor life prospects of some arctic species which don't ever experience warm damp conditions (Snowy Owls, Ivory Gulls).

[marklhawkes]

I think the suggestion was made after the C-cC had been taken ill to a wildlife centre and then died, and this was the conclusion from an autopsy... so make of that as you will...

[ROBERT WILSON]

I arrived at the Bird on Wednesday afternoon as the rain had eased off to find a small group of birders watching the bird from around 100 yards away. One birder complained that somebody had put mealworms down. I have been birding in Suffolk since 1985 and also saw the last one present at the same sight in 1990. I have seen and photographed at least 10 other individuals including the long staying female at Heacham in Norfolk in 1993. I fed this bird over a three week period and soon began to look more and more alert than when its first arrival from long migration.

I am the the stranger that the birder has moaned about. And yes i do have a large lens and you can see the results posted on Surfbirds Gallery.The bird was photographed at close quarters without causing the bird any stress. I hope to visit the site again and will endeavour to provide further mealworms for this vagrant which has been blown of course.

[ji11y]

Does this mean we now shouldn't feed birds mealworms. I thought other organisations recommend them because they are high in protein. Maybe our initial poster should contact organisations to let them know it is dangerous.
If the bird gets upset surley it flies away.
Did the bird in question look upset and fly away?
I would also like to comment that I like to see families birdwatching. Most children can't afford fancy telescopes (which are easily tripped over) and need to be closer to see the bird. From my limited experience photographers are generally carefully get a little closer but telescope users seem to think that because they are further away they don't need to be quiet which I believe distresses the bird more than getting close.
I think we need to say there are photographers who cross the line and birdwatchers who cross the line. Learn to get along

[Colin Key]

I arrived at the Bird on Wednesday afternoon as the rain had eased off to find a small group of birders watching the bird from around 100 yards away. One birder complained that somebody had put mealworms down. I have been birding in Suffolk since 1985 and also saw the last one present at the same sight in 1990. I have seen and photographed at least 10 other individuals including the long staying female at Heacham in Norfolk in 1993. I fed this bird over a three week period and soon began to look more and more alert than when its first arrival from long migration.

I am the the stranger that the birder has moaned about. And yes i do have a large lens and you can see the results posted on Surfbirds Gallery.The bird was photographed at close quarters without causing the bird any stress. I hope to visit the site again and will endeavour to provide further mealworms for this vagrant which has been blown of course.

Having looked at your website it is obvious that your motives were commercially-driven; that makes your actions even more reprehensible.

I note that you have written your name entirely in upper-case letters - you must be very important (I think not).

Colin :realmad:

[ROBERT WILSON]

I am amazed at the sad comments people make about birding and cannot see how someone living in Portugal can comment on the events in Suffolk. Colin i love birding and love all forms of Photography and yes i do sale pictures to books and magazines and i run a photographic business so i suggest that you get of your high horses and put things in the order they deserve attention. If you or any one else threatened to damage my equipment or Car i would call the police without delay. :certifiable:

[ji11y]

Colin
Can't say I like to receive abuse on a forum from someone I have never met. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
I apologise for posting twice. I am new to this forum.
I am surprised this respectable forum allows someone like yourself to post when from previous postings you have made it clear you think it acceptable to threaten people and their equipment.
What do you do for a living I wonder.
You looked at Roberts Website so you must like to look at photographs so therefore you need photographers to take the photos. Also many rare birds are found by the photographers, so like it or not birdwatchers need photographers.
Lets face it the Amur falcon/red foot would not have been properly identified without a photo. Bird watchers could not tell the difference because they couldn't zoom in.
It is supposed to be fun for you as a hobby but it sounds like it is no longer fun for you anymore so maybe you need to look elsewhere for your entertainment. I hope you use as much enthusiam in stopping the real problem. Foreign countries allowing shooting - I am sure your energy would really be appreciated to help there.
Hope I don't upset anyone else but when I first looked at these forums I thought they would be great for information not abuse so I am disappointed.

[Brian S]

Colin
I appreciate that you like to play the agent provocateur at times, and that we are all entitled to our opinions, but I do think that your choice of language is a sometimes simply too abrupt - not everybody can be as knowledgeable or literate as you, it seems.

Ji11y
As a moderator, I would like to apologise to Ji11y, I hope that Colin's 'passion' does not put you off posting in future - at surfbirds we like to think that we encourage all to enjoy their birding, at whatever level they wish. On an open forum, sometimes this means that users can speak their mind and I feel sure this is all that has happened here. I have known Robert for many years and can vouch for his experience in photographing birds, I feel sure that if he inadvertently offended someone at Southwold, it was not done intentionally

Finally, on the issue of mealworms, as the wheatear is on my local patch I can confirm that feeding is still taking place, but it is difficult to see what the difference might be between feeding this bird and those in your back garden. The bird is seemingly 'happy' (but this may well be my own personal impression) and is not being pushed around. I suspect the initial gripe may well have been more about the fact there is a perception that on occasion photographers get a touch too close to rare birds.

Phew and I hope I was literate enough.....

Brian S

[Brian S]

On a more ID-orientated note, some are asking why it is a first-winter. If you check out Rob's photo on surfbirds (below), you can see clearly two key areas.

1. There is a moult contrast in the greater coverts with four juvenile outer coverts (dark brown centres and buff-cream fringe) contrasting with fresh inner coverts (black centre with white or off-white fringe). The median coverts are also newer, with black centres.

2. The prominent fringing on the black on the 'face' goes across the lores - this is actually more obvious in the field than on photographs. Typically on adult wheatears the lores are solidly black, whilst on first-winters they are more or less fringed (they obviously wear off, but in autumn there is nearly always some present).

Brian S

[Brian S]

Further to the above, below is an adult male from Egypt in October, where you can see that the lores are entriely black. Additionally, the greater coverts are of all the same age.

Brian S

[beltonbirder]

Is this coincidence that the bird arrived at the same site as it did 18 years ago? could it be a relation to the 1990 bird?
Also many rarities have been ringed, ie the Kessingland Dusky Warbler. Will anyone be ringing the Desert Wheatear?

Finally I wish to apologise to anyone offended by Colin Key. as I was the one who started this post.

I have no personal greivence with the Photographer, and in hindsight should have spoken to him rather than post my "Truck" on here.

BB.

[Brian S]

Colin (BeltonB)

No problems at all re your original post, it was pertinent and certainly worth discussing.

I have a feeling that the two DWs were not related:smile:, it is more likely that there is a little microhabitat there that DWs find to their liking.

Brian S

[beltonbirder]

There is likely to be a mass visit of birders this weekend. So Meal worm supplies will hit an all time high. The Minsmere shop may be full of "Proper Birders" queing for tubs.

[forktail]

Hi guys

Rob's been around a long time and knows what he's doing - nice chap too - I suspect a lot of the people causing grief are the from the inexperienced end of the spectrum. The ease with which large lenses can be acquired these days often doesn't allow the requisite degree of competence, when it comes to observing birds, to be built up. It does happen more these days and we all know it. It's difficult to be the first one to say something to someone who's moved onto private land or is in danger of flushing a bird while others are waiting patiently at a distance but a firm and polite request works wonders. I've never been told where to go (yet!) and people standing around have always been very appreciative and thankful that someone has removed the problem. I was totally ignored once but there were too many witnesses to take it further... :realmad::laugh:

atb,
hoping for a good weekend :beer:
Tim

[beltonbirder]

I have 30 years birding mainly around Benacre and Lowestoft so I am not of that inexperienced spectrum. The post was not meant to be a rant just wanted to see how other birders felt about the feeding so Rob, I apologise for Fuelling the fire and in no way do I want you to think I am getting people to Gang up on you.
:SLEEP:

[Colin Key]

I have known Robert for many years and can vouch for his experience in photographing birds, I feel sure that if he inadvertently offended someone at Southwold, it was not done intentionally

Brian S

Come off it Brian,

You are speaking up for someone you obviously know and, possibly, respect.
I am only "going" on second or third-hand information here but my long experience has taught me that this sort of person is guilty of being selfish, arrogant and totally irresponsible towards the welfare of "the subject". If I am wrong, then I offer an unreserved apology. However, I think the fact that he has recruited the services of a "stooge" (ji11y) to speak on his behalf speaks volumes; he is clearly in remission.

I have seen this sort of behaviour by greedy photographers too often to forgive, let alone condone, it.

I am afraid that I am still "smarting" from the actions of the small group of photographers who travelled here from Lisbon to photograph the Spotted Crake at Lagoa dos Salgados and just "screwed it" for everyone else. I would, quite honestly, exterminate these sort of people if it did not mean me going to prison for doing so.

You are obviously a "politically-correct liberal" (note the lower-case "l"), I pride myself on being a more realistic and focused individual (I was tempted to say fascist despot, but decided against it!!).

You live in Suffolk, a very nice "comfy" sort of place where the evils of the world do not impinge too much. Where I live I am in the "thick of it" (and I am talking about illegal hunting, etc.) every day, and it is non too pleasant (to put it mildly).

I am a birder who also photographs birds - I cannot excuse the actions of photographers who disregard the welfare of birds or the enjoyment of simple "birdwatchers" in order to get the "money shot".

I've said my bit, and will not make further posts in this thread.

Colin :realmad:

[ROBERT WILSON]

I just like to say i always try to get the best results and have been photographing Rarities since 1986 and over the years with varied success and have now moved more into filming in the last two years with my first DVD Bids and habitats of Norfolk ready in time for Christmas. The birding has certainly changed with digital photography allowing awesome images to be captured. My next project is to start filming in Suffolk. I allready have footage from the past including the Ivory Gull at Aldeburgh. Lets hope the next 9 months Suffolk can come up with some interesting bird.

Lets just enjoy birding for what it is look forward to the future and what vagrants will pass by in the future

[beltonbirder]

Ok I admit I was wrong and should have researched into feeding mealworms.

Rob has been targeted wrongly and I set it up.Well we all learn from our mistakes.
Sorry folks.
BB:beer:

[ji11y]

Its been an interesting day. I will have to take more care of my gramma (hee hee) on here and not rush my postings. Hopefully I will meet you out and about Colin, as you aren't that far away.
I have met some great people birdwatching but have also watched a serious face off over which is better Canon or Nikon, Swarovski or Leica. Sad but true.

[Josh Jones]

Come on guys, the best way to avoid all this moaning about photographers (or misbehaviour at twitches generally) is to get the banter done in the field. Not only does it generally have better effect but also gives the watching crowd some amusement.

[Bobolink44]

Thanks for the first-winter ID tips. It's a cracking looking bird and remarkable it's the second at that same place!

Well said Josh, if someone's disturbing the bird, speak up and I'm sure they'll back down. Hadn't considered the relative merits and cons or mealworms but interesting that they may be saving the lives of some vagrants. Maybe someone with veterinary experience can weigh in. We should probably consider this one closed (everybody has said their piece) and this sort of topic is well hashed out on other forums if that's the discussion you're looking for.

[MichaelF]

A Pied Wheatear up here a few years ago (8 Dec '98) was given the option of some mealworms and ate 17 of them in one sitting . . . after that it looked much as you'd expect, like a person who'd just swallowed 17 Cumberland sausages at a go. But it stayed on for a week perfectly happily scoffing a load more, hardly ever moving away from its impromptu bird table.

[Bobolink44]

Let's not forget the '83 Scilly Upland Sand that took a bit of Mars bar from Brian Field's mouth! Now that can't have been in the bird's best interest. :)

[RoyW]

Well said Josh, if someone's disturbing the bird, speak up and I'm sure they'll back down. Hadn't considered the relative merits and cons or mealworms but interesting that they may be saving the lives of some vagrants. Maybe someone with veterinary experience can weigh in.

I think Josh said all that was needed concerning the actions of a photographer at a twitch - I would be interested if anyone can provide more on the mealworm side of this thread though.

Could a bird that comes to rely on mealworms, and finds none of it's own food, (as a tired / sick vagrant may do) be lacking essential nutrients in it's diet - or is it more a case of 2 + 2 = 5 in the Ovenbird and C-c Courser examples given (ie. dead birds crop found to contain only mealworms therefore cause of death = mealworm poisoning!)?

One thing that must be true is that providing a ready food source for a bird is beneficial if the food is suitable.

[Rockgod]

Just to clarify some of the speculation in this thread regarding demise the the Cream-coloured Courser and Ovenbird on Scilly in 2004.
The photographer(s) were seen putting out maggots not mealworms, that were readily consumed by both birds (Ren Hathaway; pers comm); maggots are well known as a source of Clostridium botulinum - both birds exhibited evidence of muscle weakness and paralysis prior to death, to my knowledge neither bird was subjected to post mortem forensic studies, certainly not the Ovenbirdl. Of course this is still nothing more than speculation and not evidence of unintentional poisoning.

[robinchittenden]

Come off it Brian,



I am afraid that I am still "smarting" from the actions of the small group of photographers who travelled here from Lisbon to photograph the Spotted Crake at Lagoa dos Salgados and just "screwed it" for everyone else. I would, quite honestly, exterminate these sort of people if it did not mean me going to prison for doing so.


Colin :realmad:

Having just found a Pectoral Sandpiper at Lagoa dos Salgados I was very happy to then find the Spotted Crake on the same afternoon while leading a Limosa Holiday tour to the Algarve. We saw the Crake on 6th & 9th October without any difficulty.

I was sorry to hear that photographers "screwed it" for everyone else'.

We never saw anyone else there when we visited and it allowed excellent close viewing without disturbance. I didn't take any photos on this occasion as there was sufficient time as I was tour leading. I must confess I'm can't see how photographers could have been a problem there. I put the news out on 6th.

Robin Chittenden

www.birdlineeastanglia.co.uk & www.harlequinpictures.co.uk

[AndyB]

Even if it is speculation Rockgod, thanks for at least clarifying that we shouldn't be feeding birds maggots maggots are well known as a source of Clostridium botulinum - both birds exhibited evidence of muscle weakness and paralysis prior to death

Also, here is a link to Mark Hows' video (http://surfbirds.com/video2/view_video.php?viewkey=a60554bc78518d5f9b32)of this bird.

[beltonbirder]

So this may be a good time to report that the bird has become very weak and sickly.

Who killed the Desert Wheatear?
Not I said the man with the big camera lens
No me said the man with the tub of worms
so we cried and we cried and we mourned the birds demise.
as the twitchers bowed their heads to the Wheatear nearly died.

[Brian S]

Though it was sad to see the Desert Wheatear looking wretched today, maybe nobody killed it. Perhaps roosting and feeding in a groyne that has the sea (at high-tide) almost covering it, is a possible reason?

One might argue that it seemed healthy when the food was being put out, but when this stopped, it's health deteriorated? Do you know what (and I might be saying something new here), I suspect that most vagrants die anyway...........

Brian S

[beltonbirder]

Hold yer Hosses I dont think it is dead yet. It was also re located by another birder this afternoon( A Lounge Lizard I believe) on the groynes area, but as the weather was hoolying it about I would be a bit wet and sickly too.

[MichaelF]

If it does die, and is found, maybe at least get a detailed autopsy done so guidelines for future advice to birders can be made. My guess again, is that it will be some humid-climate disease or wet chilling that desert birds have little or no resistance to, but if it does turn out to be due to artificial feeding, then that's an important fact to know about.

[beltonbirder]

I doubt if the bird would be recovered as it was very wet and windy this afternoon with a rough ole sea. I dont think there are many Suffolk Birders on this forum to have read the thread and could pick up the bird for examination, theoretically where would the funds come from to post mortem the bird and who would produce the results. Finally would any birder be that bothered about the results if they were positive?
:certifiable::laugh:

[MichaelF]

I did say "if" . . . :cool:

As to whether anyone would be bothered - it could lead to revision of the Birdwatcher's Code of Conduct, and potentially, to the whole bird food industry, if mealworms and/or other bird food products were discovered to be potentially harmful to birds.

[Rockgod]

My I refer you to my previous post. Mealworms are not harmful to wild birds. Bait maggots are harmful because they are a source of botulism.

Avian botulism occurs naturally in wild bird populations, particularly in wetland species as the spores produced by clostridium botulinum thrive in the anaerobic conditions of wetland sediment.

Botulism occurs as a food-borne infection in humans usually where poor hygiene has been applied in the 'canning' process.

Commercial mealworms are sold in a container of bran or oatmeal, which even you or I could eat. Bait maggots raised on a diet of pureed rotting fish or meat, an entirely different ball game; I defy even Brian Small's world renowned gastro-intestinal tract (parp!) to cope.

[Brian S]

Rockgod - Hi mate

If I can survive a toilet stop in Tsavo West, I reckon I could eat maggots!!

Brian S

[MichaelF]

Bait maggots are harmful because they are a source of botulism
I'll have to remember never to eat fish line-caught with maggots! Botulism is potent enough to be transmitted from maggot through fish to consumer of the fish . . .

[MichaelF]

BTW, dunno about Suffolk, but there's a very nice male Desert Wheatear at Lynemouth, just got in from seeing it today! :smile:

[Brian S]

I haven't seen any really good close, side on views, but the black the face - and especially the lores - appears to have very little fringing. This might not be so in the field.

Is there a moult contrast, as it might be an adult?

Brian S

[MichaelF]

Here's my pics from today, looks like adult male:

[Brian S]

The new image on surfbirds by David Dack certainly does not show any moult contrast in the greater coverts, rather they are all the same age - black with white fringes. The lores look all black and so it might be an adult male.

Brian S