Glaucous-winged Gull on Teeside

[Brian S]

Some good shots of the Glaucous-winged Gull are now on the Stop Press gallery http://www.surfbirds.com/cgi-bin/gallery/display.cgi?gallery=gallery9

The bird appears to have the right structural qualities, though the bill may be at the lower end of the range in size; the plumage also seems good, with the primary pattern, and the brown-cream crescental markings on the neck-side forming a 'shawl'.

Brian S

[AndyB]

Good to see these better photos. The first ones taken in the fog on Lee's site, had me concerned that the bird looked a little small in several regards. It still looks a little small-billed (compared to the typical big-billed, small-headed, small-eyed gull it is) but plumage looks decent and would presumably rule out a hybrid. It's not smaller than the nearby Herrings is it? The few photos I've seen of HerringxGW show very dark primaries.

[AndyB]

I guess it's also that time of year again when we have to link to Jeff Poklen's excellent set of gull images. Here's the GW page: http://www.pbase.com/jpkln/glaucouswing

[GoneBirding]

Good to see these better photos. The first ones taken in the fog on Lee's site, had me concerned that the bird looked a little small in several regards. It still looks a little small-billed (compared to the typical big-billed, small-headed, small-eyed gull it is) but plumage looks decent and would presumably rule out a hybrid. It's not smaller than the nearby Herrings is it? The few photos I've seen of HerringxGW show very dark primaries.

Andy, the bird looks to me little larger than the Herrings in the field, and to me somewhat stockier and looks shorter winged in flight giving it a bulky look. The bill is a little odd compared to what I would have expected as you say. It has that small "piggy eyed" look with the eye seeming high in the head to me compared to most Herrings.... but these are my personal feelings and having never seen GWG anywhere before they might mean anything......:ohdear:

Cheers

Steph'

[JanJ]

Also note the missing p10, seen growing in spread wing, p10 aprox. less than halfway and seemingly with a larger mirror compared to p9. The bill size vary according to what image you look at, but at the present I can´t see why this it isn´t a GWG.

JanJ

[Brian S]

Phil Pickering on IDF has made some interesting comments

http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A1=ind0901a&L=birdwg01

Brian S

[Josh Jones]

Interesting to see all negative comments have currently come from people judging the rather poor online images. My notes are as follows:

"relocated at 14:30 in fields east of tip. In all respects a classic; dark eye, heavy & slightly downcurved bill, smudgy-brown head & neck, primaries more or less concolorous with rest of wing. Facially, gave a 'western' gull feel. Bird slightly larger than Herring Gulls present, also somewhat bulkier"

Now look at surfbirds stop press and look at Pete Antrobus' images, to me the most representative of all the images online so far.

Didn't see Glaucous-winged coming again so soon after the 2007 bird...

[JanJ]

It´s of course rather difficult to make any reliable suggestions when you haven´t seen the gull in real life. Bill size differ in the varies images available and as Phil I thought that the bill looked a bit on the thin side and without the bulbous tip so typicall for GWG. However bills like that do exist on some GWG - and they are most probably females. If it was seen in N. America I´m pretty sure there had been no specific doubts as to what species this gull represent, that is to say if a hybrid could be excluded. Here are a few from Hokkaido. Noted as slightly darker and longer-winged than N. American birds.

http://starling.dyndns.org/~birdkitahiro/hokkaido/gulls/gullindex/glaucescens/ad06.htm

http://starling.dyndns.org/~birdkitahiro/hokkaido/gulls/gullindex/glaucescens/index.htm

JanJ

[Josh Jones]

I thought that the bill looked a bit on the thin side and without the bulbous tip so typicall for GWG. However bills like that do exist on some GWG - and they are most probably females.

But Jan, the bird's bill was bulbous towards the tip with a strong gonydeal angle! Particularly so when compared to nearby Herring Gulls.

I agree this bird is not as big and bulky as some Glaucous-winged Gulls, but then this can easily be attributed to variation as well as the chance that the Cleveland bird could be a female.

Another couple:

http://www.pbase.com/jpkln/image/40511487

http://www.pbase.com/jpkln/image/91542284

I don't think there is any question as to the specific identity of this individual; people seem to be over-cautious due to this bird being well out of range.

Josh

[MichaelF]

Looked OK to me too this morning. Bill perhaps not quite as stout as I'd expected, but not out of the range shown in JanJ's links (not thinner than e.g. this one: http://starling.dyndns.org/~birdkitahiro/hokkaido/gulls/gullindex/glaucescens/ad15.htm ). The dark eye was certainly conspicuous even at the fairly long range. My impression of the primary tips was just very slightly darker than the mantle.

[JanJ]

But Jan, the bird's bill was bulbous towards the tip with a strong gonydeal angle! Particularly so when compared to nearby Herring Gulls.

I agree this bird is not as big and bulky as some Glaucous-winged Gulls, but then this can easily be attributed to variation as well as the chance that the Cleveland bird could be a female.

Another couple:

http://www.pbase.com/jpkln/image/40511487

http://www.pbase.com/jpkln/image/91542284

I don't think there is any question as to the specific identity of this individual; people seem to be over-cautious due to this bird being well out of range.

Josh

I see that now Josh, in the new images at Surfbirds. Also seen in the new ones - where the wing is raised showing the underwing, is p10 growing, a little late perhaps but imo no big deal!


JanJ

[ROBERT WILSON]

Haven't been to see the bird yet as busy with work but thought you might like to see pictures of two individual birds taken in Vancouver BC in 1995

http://www.robwilsonphotos.co.uk/glaucous-winged-gull-image-p-393.html

http://www.robwilsonphotos.co.uk/glaucous-winged-gull-juvenile-image-p-1988.html

I hope to see the bird sometime next week

[Pipixcan]

Hi, I saw the Glaucous-winged Gull off and on throughout today and I must say I`m very happy with its identification.
I`ve seen the species before and was particularly impressed when the bird showed after 2pm in the ploughed field.
The head shape was really distinctive then with the high set eye and the droopy almost downcurved bill.The bill size was much easier to judge at closer range and appears OK to me.
The still growing P10 was perhaps unexpected but i don`t think too unusual.
Also the smudged head and neck markings looked good as did the leg colour.
All in all a very impressive bird.

Cheers,P

[Hirundo]

If P10 is missing, is it OK for such large mirrors to be present on P7-9 in Toby Collett's outstretched wing shot?

http://www.surfbirds.com/media/gallery_photos/20090103105400.jpg

Olsen's book says typical adult has mirror on P10 and perhaps P9 only and very rare on P8 as in this typical adult:
http://www.pbase.com/gtepke/image/88417734

but then see this bird and there are many others on the net:
http://www.pbase.com/image/73323187

confused :puzzled:

I hear hybrids are very common on west coast but none see to look like GW - all seem to have v. dark primaries

[JanJ]

Confused is just the forename when dealing with gulls (and photos).
Anyway, a good question about the primary pattern.
What you actually see in Tepke,s and Poklend,s image is the so called 'white tongue-tips' and not mirrors. The mirror is usually confined to p10 and p9 and ususally involves both webs, but somtimes only inner web
- mostly regarding p9. or lacking all together in p9. So, the natural question would then be, why are the white tongu-tips not mirrors then, when a mirror can be confined to the inner web? Well, because the are considered to be the extensins of the grey inner webs of the primary, also called grey tongue. They produce the so called 'white string of pearls' usually seen in Slaty-backed Gull but also in some other gull species.

http://www23.tok2.com/home/jgull/031217/Slaty.htm

http://www.pbase.com/image/84191062 (note the bill)

http://www.pbase.com/shonn/image/94758391

http://www.pbase.com/image/102662131

Just an example of a suggested GWG x HG:

http://www.pbase.com/image/94758920

JanJ

[Hirundo]

Thank you JanJ. I find the books talk about mirrors and "string of pearls" but I have struggled to be certain I know precisely. So just to be certain, on attached image, do I have them correctly labelled? In general, mirrors will be rounded oval-shaped (hence the name I guess!) and and tongue tips are crescent, moon-shaped? Thank you so much for the help.

[Brian S]

Hirundo

Though you asked Jan, I can step in and confirm that your labelling of the image is correct.

On the spread wing of the GwGu, at least on the one you copied, p10 is not visible on the left wing, but I assume it was growing - those that saw it (I DIPPED ON SUNDAY!!)

Brian S

[MichaelF]

Just as an aside . . . why do some people talking about gulls number the primaries the wrong way round? It is very confusing. Much better if everyone could stick to the same conventions as Svensson's Identification Guide to European Passerines, etc., i.e., #1 = outermost.

[JanJ]

Yes, as Brian say´s and which I didn´t confirm to Hirundo, p10 is growing. In the image linked by Hirundo the whitish area on the leading edge of the primaries, just beyond the primary coverts - appears to be the mirror of p10.
Michael has a good point regarding the numbering of primaries. In passerines both the primaries and secondaries are numbered from the outside towards the body (ascendently) while in gulls the primaries are numbered from the body towards the outside of the wing (descendently). However the secondaries in a gull is numbered ascendently, confused?
As mentioned by Svensson the method is widely used by ringers. In moult studies the descendently method is used due to the which the feathers are renewed. Some have adopted the opposite method in numbering the primaries even when describing the wing formula but as noted by Svensson maybe more practical with the former method ( see his note 2 on page 15)
I would prefer the 'moult study method' - at least in gulls.

JanJ

[AndyB]

Birding with Graham yesterday, we found a few adult Glaucous-winged Gulls. Most being the usual big, bulky beasts but this smaller-billed adult seemed most similar to the UK bird. Photos posted in my gulls album (http://surfbirds.com/albums/showgallery.php/cat/601)

[AndyB]

Whether this has any bearing on the recent UK occurence (possibly not as I haven't noticed unusual reports on the east coast) but we're having a very abnormal, bumper year for Glaucous-wingeds in the LA Basin. High counts of 80+ birds at some locations and others which are seeing double or triple the usual numbers. Nearly all first-winters (and I usually only seen a handful of adults each winter with little effort) but I was even seeing several adults foraging along the streets yesterday on my drive in to work!

Either there's a bumper crop of 2008 juvenile birds or they're just escaping the winter storms further north but there's definitely been an unusual movement this winter.