new colins bird guide

[michael23]

hi, I am looking forward to the new version of the superb colins bird guide, from what I have been able to find, it is released in march of this year here in the uk. does anyone have any other information?

[Joe stockwell]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Collins-Bird-Guide-Lars-Svensson/dp/0007267266/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232131546&sr=1-2


should hold all the info you desire

[michael23]

hi joe thanks for the link, hope they dont put the date back again.

[Colin Key]

Oddly enough, I have just said to "her indoors" (after delving into my current hard-back edition) that this is probably the most used book that I have ever owned. I also have soft-back editions in English and Portuguese, and the large format English version (when I first got it I just drooled over the paintings in the larger version).

I have heard a "whisper" (as one does) that it is the "gulls" which are holding things up; I also hope that the section on raptors is much improved (the book's weak link, as far as I am concerned).

I do still find myself going back to Lars Jonsson's "Birds of Europe", my first "proper" guide and a much underestimated tome after the publication of the Collins Guide.

Colin

[Martin Scott]

Be interesting to see how they treat seabirds following on from Petrels Night and Day, and what they do re Gulls.

Word is in a new list Clements has just (re)lumped American Herring Gull. The joys of taxonomy.

Hopefully the North American passerine plates might get redone too.

[MichaelF]

Word is in a new list Clements has just (re)lumped American Herring Gull. The joys of taxonomy.
And several other things, including Green-winged Teal with Common Teal, and African, European & Siberian Stonechats; all done to harmonise Clements with the AOU list (which hasn't yet examined these taxa split by other groups, so it is a backward step in ignoring previously followed scientific data). In particular, what authority the AOU has to rule on Eurasian taxa extralimital to their area like stonechats, I don't know!

Not sure Clements ever was a reliable and independent source of information, but it certainly isn't now. There are better lists available, such as Avibase and the IOC.

[michael23]

the new guide should be thorough then! would be nice having a field guide that covers gulls decently, i have always had an interest in gulls and i am looking forward to seeing text referring to caspian and american herring gulls.
does anyone know of any good id articles of these 2?

[Colin Key]

..... would be nice having a field guide that covers gulls decently, .......

If you are "into" gulls Michael then I would strongly recommend the Helm Guide "Gulls of Europe, Asia and North America" by Olsen and Larsson (ISBN 0-7136-7087-8). Might seem expensive at £45 but well worth it.

Colin

[Colin Key]

Hopefully the North American passerine plates might get redone too.

Just had a look - forgotten how dire these are! :eek:

Colin

[michael23]

thanks colin will look into it.

[MichaelF]

Colin,

new colins bird guide

Care to say how much you were involved in this??

:laugh:

[Colin Key]

Colin,



Care to say how much you were involved in this??

:laugh:

"Colin's" bird guide is something completely different and will knock spots off everything else!!

Collin :biggrin::wink:

[john c]

If you are "into" gulls Michael then I would strongly recommend the Helm Guide "Gulls of Europe, Asia and North America" by Olsen and Larsson (ISBN 0-7136-7087-8). Might seem expensive at £45 but well worth it.

Colin


I'm still trying to recover from the thought of Colin's large edition of this guide covered in his drool .... not a pretty image! I know it's heresy,but I feel that the gulls book is so densely worded that it's virtually unreadable. I look at it and come away feeling that there are simply too many trees in that particular wood.

Personally, I don't see the BoP plates as being any weaker than any of the other plates (though let's hope they cover Ruppell's Vulture). As for the American passerines, once you appreciate that they're painted in a different style then they are really rather good. I too have heard that the gulls have been the sticking point, but who really knows?! I'm hoping that some of the more recnt splits (e.g. Mamora's Warbler) will be fully covered.

Brilliant though the Collins guide is, when I want to check details of plumage I always look at Hayman & Hume's facinating (and much neglected) large format 'Birdlife of Britain & Europe'. At risk of being even more heretical, in some ways it's better than the Collin's guide. The mini-field guide's not bad either,

John

[Ben Miller]

it is released in march of this year here in the uk.

According to the publisher's website, publication date is 28th May '09; http://www.harpercollins.co.uk/Contents/Title/Pages/default.aspx?objId=36363

One to look forward to, I can't think of a more qualified group to cover the advances we've made in the last 10 years in a fieldguide. And I can't believe it's 10 years since it first came out!

[Colin Key]

I'm still trying to recover from the thought of Colin's large edition of this guide covered in his drool .... not a pretty image! I know it's heresy,but I feel that the gulls book is so densely worded that it's virtually unreadable. I look at it and come away feeling that there are simply too many trees in that particular wood.

Personally, I don't see the BoP plates as being any weaker than any of the other plates (though let's hope they cover Ruppell's Vulture). As for the American passerines, once you appreciate that they're painted in a different style then they are really rather good. I too have heard that the gulls have been the sticking point, but who really knows?! I'm hoping that some of the more recnt splits (e.g. Mamora's Warbler) will be fully covered.

Brilliant though the Collins guide is, when I want to check details of plumage I always look at Hayman & Hume's facinating (and much neglected) large format 'Birdlife of Britain & Europe'. At risk of being even more heretical, in some ways it's better than the Collin's guide. The mini-field guide's not bad either,

John

John,

I know what you mean about the Helm "Gulls" guide, but it is a magnificent tome and is one of the best guides to integrate beautiful paintings with equally excellent photographs. It is a book which I felt I had to own (living on the coast in S Europe) but confess that gulls are not my favourite group of birds. I admire the "maestros" (members of this forum) but really cannot get myself that interested in distinguishing between various "herring type" gulls. No-one has yet successfully convinced me that I am looking at a Caspian Gull!

The raptor illustrations in the Collins guide are technically good, but my comment was based on actual experience in the field (with others) when I/we have found quite a few of the illustrations "wanting" in making an I.D. Again, the Helm guide on Raptors by Dick Forsman is an excellent book; in this case I think that it is actually a readable book (unlike the Gulls guide which is encyclopedic in its content) but could have been improved with some paintings as opposed to being entirely photographic.

As for the American passerines in the Collins guide: "As for the American passerines, once you appreciate that they're painted in a different style then they are really rather good" - yes, not bad for "painting by numbers"!! Come on, they are DREADFUL.

Colin

P.S. No more problems with "drooling", wife has fitted me with a "dribble tray" (bought for my 60th birthday). :laugh:

[john c]

John,

I know what you mean about the Helm "Gulls" guide, ........ No-one has yet successfully convinced me that I am looking at a Caspian Gull!

The raptor illustrations in the Collins guide are technically good, but my comment was based on actual experience in the field (with others) when I/we have found quite a few of the illustrations "wanting" in making an I.D. Again, the Helm guide on Raptors by Dick Forsman is an excellent book; in this case I think that it is actually a readable book (unlike the Gulls guide which is encyclopedic in its content) but could have been improved with some paintings as opposed to being entirely photographic.

As for the American passerines in the Collins guide: "As for the American passerines, once you appreciate that they're painted in a different style then they are really rather good" - yes, not bad for "painting by numbers"!! Come on, they are DREADFUL.

Colin

P.S. No more problems with "drooling", wife has fitted me with a "dribble tray" (bought for my 60th birthday). :laugh:

I'm not sure that the image of you sporting a dribble tray is much of an improvement ... !

Glad to see that we agree on the gulls book and the identifiability of Caspian Gull! (Thank goodness for Dave Walker at Dungeness!) I agree that Forsman's book is far better in terms of readability and that it would be improved by some good paintings (esp. for comparisons). However, I've not found that the Collins guide is wanting here despite 'actual experience in the field'. I'm hoping the recent Danish book on BoPs authored by Malling Olsen and evidently beautifully illustrated appears in an English edition - although the text may also be too densely written like his gulls book!

Sorry, but we'll have to disagree about those American plates - for truly dreadful plates see Arthur Singer's efforts in the old Hamlyn guide (esp pipits!),

Yours, John (currently a dribble free 58 year old)

[Colin Key]

Sorry, but we'll have to disagree about those American plates ........
Yours, John (currently a dribble free 58 year old)

John,

I was (like you, I presume?) brought up on Thorburn's paintings in "The Observer's Book of British Birds". Since then, bird art has improved leaps and bounds and some recent (and not so recent) work is superb. But there is also some rubbish out there. I bought the Helm Guide to "Waders of Europe, Asia and North America" by Stephen Message and Don Taylor a while ago; waste of time and money - dreadful layout for the book and horrific paintings.

One of my favourite bird artists has always been Lars Jonsson and I used his field guide before the Collins guide appeared (and I also have his book "Birds and Light" which is beautiful), but even Lars had some "down time"; in his "Birds of Europe" I think that his paintings of raptors, gulls, waders and warblers are excellent, but (having just had a quick look again) his paintings of Tree and House Sparrow are very "impressionist" and his Bullfinch paintings are "nightmare alley".

As for Kevin Baker's (Helm) "Warblers of Europe, Asia and North Africa", words just fail me :eek:.

Colin

[MichaelF]

but even Lars had some "down time"

Not sure if you know, his Birds of Europe was five earlier books of his merged together, starting with Fåglar i Naturen: Skog, Park, Trädgård (Birds in Nature: Forest, Park, Garden; 1976). The "down time" pics in Birds of Europe date from this, which was before he built up his art expertise. The pics steadily (and very visibly) improved through each of the subsequent four books. There's a bit about it in the foreword (p. 4) of Birds of Europe.

[Colin Key]

I must have read that before Michael, just forgotten about it.

Rather encouraging to know that accomplished bird artists are "made" and not just "born"!

Colin :smile:

[john c]

John,

I was (like you, I presume?) brought up on Thorburn's paintings in "The Observer's Book of British Birds". Since then, bird art has improved leaps and bounds and some recent (and not so recent) work is superb. But there is also some rubbish out there. I bought the Helm Guide to "Waders of Europe, Asia and North America" by Stephen Message and Don Taylor a while ago; waste of time and money - dreadful layout for the book and horrific paintings.

One of my favourite bird artists has always been Lars Jonsson and I used his field guide before the Collins guide appeared (and I also have his book "Birds and Light" which is beautiful), but even Lars had some "down time"; in his "Birds of Europe" I think that his paintings of raptors, gulls, waders and warblers are excellent, but (having just had a quick look again) his paintings of Tree and House Sparrow are very "impressionist" and his Bullfinch paintings are "nightmare alley".

As for Kevin Baker's (Helm) "Warblers of Europe, Asia and North Africa", words just fail me :eek:.

Colin

You're a hard man Colin! I reckon that Thorburn's plates are still amongst the most beautiful illustrations of birds ever painted so I wouldn't necessarily agree that things have improved by "leaps and bounds." Thorburn painted for a radically different market so it's not an entirely fair comparison. Whilst I'd agree with you 100% on the layout of the waders book, I think you're overly harsh regarding Stephen Message's paintings. Whilst they may not reach the Olympian heights of Lars Jonnson's work (who can?) they're certainly a very, very long way from being 'horrific'. But then I may be biased since Kent based Stephen Message is a friend (and a very pleasant chap he is too).

However, all is not lost since we can agree about Kevin Baker's "illustrations" for the warbler book. I swore I'd never buy it, but was tempted by a remaindered copy. A revised and re-edited version with entirely new plates would be a different matter.

We're drifting a little away from the title of the thread so perhaps if we want to continue we ought to start one on "FG illustration",

John
(in a freezing Canterbury looking out at the snow falling - doesn't that make you feel good, Colin?

[Colin Key]

(in a freezing Canterbury looking out at the snow falling - doesn't that make you feel good, Colin?

John,

I would LOVE to see some snow!

This winter has, I understand, been the worst for 50 years in the Algarve. Last night we had one of the most severe storms in living memory (the barometer is almost off the scale at the moment and still falling) and our house was flooded out in the early hours (literally 2 inches of water throughout), plus we lost the power supply. "Mopping up" by torch at 3.00 am is no fun.

Colin