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Brian S
August 11th, 2009, 10:25 PM
Swarovski ATM 80 HD + 25-50x W eyepiece

For the past few weeks I have been lucky enough to use the new Swarovski ATM 80 HD coupled with the new 25-50x W eyepiece. By way of a simple review, there’s no point beating about the bush, this new telescope/eyepiece combination from Swarovski is simply superb. Alongside Leica, Swarovski have recently made upgrades to their optical equipment spurred on by both Zeiss and Kowa. Though these upgrades may to some seem like subtle changes to already very good ‘scopes and eyepieces, on the ‘ATM’ Swarovski have improved the body, making it from magnesium, and by improving the glass and coating they have improved the light-gathering qualities compared with the ATS. Furthermore, the ‘W’ eyepiece is totally new, and offers a more limited range in zoom, but a big improvement in the optical quality and angle of view.

[For more technical details visit here http://www.swarovskioptik.com/en/products/48 - for the body; and here http://www.swarovskioptik.com/en/products/18 - for the eyepiece.]

The only cosmetic difference anybody might notice on the body is that the sliding objective lens-hood is black, otherwise it is the same sensitive and smooth ‘helical-’ (barrel-) focussing (the only one of the ‘big four’ to use this method of focus). It still has the small device to help with the aim (on the angled scope); the eyepiece still has a bayonet mount that clicks in nicely and smoothly; handily, Swarovski have made the ‘foot’ of the ‘scope the same size as the attachment that fixes it to the head of many Swarovski/Manfrotto tripods, so their is no chance of it (annoyingly) coming loose.

It is hard to judge any improvement to the body without using an eyepiece on it, and the new 25-50x W eyepiece is amazing. The eye-relief (diameter of the lens) is large, no doubt in order to allow for the fantastic angle of view, which is significantly greater than the Kowa 883 – hence th ‘W’ on it’s name. This large eye-relief initially meant that it took a short while for me to find the perfect placement of my eye, in order to cut out some dark crescental ‘shadows’ I was getting, but I got used to this quickly and there were no further problems.

Optically, all of the top telescopes are excellent, and the ATM 80HD is, as you would expect, superb. The most significant feature of the 25-50x W is the wide angle of view. This is extremely impressive (e.g. at 25x it is greater than the Kowa at 20x and at 50x it is equal to 38x on the Kowa; in many circumstances (especially seawatching and when digiscoping) I found this an enormous benefit. I got so used to it that I found looking through other zooms sometimes a touch restricting.

Through the ‘scope, the image is clear and crisp from edge-to-edge, with no distortion of straight lines; at the extreme edge, there is sometimes a very slight colour fringe on dark objects against a bright background, but I have to say that for most of the time this is not noticeable at all (only visible if you really looks for it). As you zoom up, there is a need to slightly re-adjust the focus, but I find this with all ‘scopes, and the depth of field is good – whilst seawatching, the focus was from c.300m to the horizon. The image is almost imperceptibly on the warm side, and looking east across the North Sea, with the sun glinting in the early morning there was no internal reflection at all.

In summary, optically there is very little to choose between all of the top telescopes, for many it will boil down to personal preference. The one significant advantage to the set-up I have tested is the angle of view that will benefit most birders in their general birding. For those that digiscope, they will find they do not have to zoom in so much to get rid of the vignetting (black circling round the image). I can highly recommend this set-up, but if you find the price too steep for you at the moment, you might seriously starting by getting the new eyepiece.

Brian Small – August 2009

[From time to time, I will add to this review some images I have taken through the ‘scope and ‘W’ eyepiece. Here is the first, an unmanipulated image of a Common Tern at Minsmere in July http://surfbirds.com/albums/showphoto.php/photo/8334/ppuser/411 - with work these could be vastly improved, but I wanted to show the image without sharpening, etc..]

MichaelF
August 11th, 2009, 11:42 PM
making it from magnesium
So if you set fire to it, it'll burn away with fierce white heat . . .

Oh, and don't spill any vinegar on it, or it'll dissolve :laugh:

Brian S
August 12th, 2009, 10:22 AM
Here's another image of the Common Tern, but on this you can see a strange pinky orange worm-like protuberance at the base of the bill. What does anyone think this is?

http://surfbirds.com/albums/showphoto.php/photo/8335/ppuser/411

Brian S

michael23
August 12th, 2009, 11:01 AM
could be a water droplet reflecting the colour of the bill,

Im looking forward to looking through all of the big scopes at the birdfair, i do have another question, but will post that seperately.

MichaelF
August 12th, 2009, 12:26 PM
could be a water droplet reflecting the colour of the bill
Yes, agree.

I do have another question, but will post that seperately.
Yeah, where on earth can a person get hold of enough money to get one of these things!!

forktail
August 12th, 2009, 12:30 PM
Yes, agree.


Yeah, where on earth can a person get hold of enough money to get one of these things!!

Hi Brian / Michael

thanks for the review

I guess, like a few others, the price of some scopes puts me right off given that there is an almost imperceptible difference in quality between the best. It's suprising that the market can take these large increases in price but it obviously can. Most birders I know are as tight as anything and hang onto their gear for ages. Is it the grey pound?

I'm using an old ED78 (£400 bargain from WExpress!) that performs fantastically still but dread the day I have to replace it for something that's four times the price and hardly performs better, if at all.

F.

Brian S
August 12th, 2009, 01:00 PM
Don't think it is a water droplet.

Brian S

JanJ
August 12th, 2009, 01:36 PM
Maybe a part of the tongue.

JanJ

Colin Key
August 12th, 2009, 01:51 PM
Interesting review. As has been said, there is so little now between the top-end 'scopes that individual reviews and side-be-side comparisons are becoming less meaningfull. Individuals' eyesight, most of the time, cannot appreciate the subtle differences in colour caste, etc. We are now getting into a game where the price of a new 'scope is equivalent to having your eyes "improved" at a private hospital (cataracts, macular degeneration, etc) - this is something which I am currently considering.

Brian's digiscoped shots of the tern are encouraging - they are good, and with better light could have been excellent. I have had a little "fiddle":

http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/Passarinhos/Common_tern_mins_230709.jpg

http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/Passarinhos/Common_tern_mins_230709a.jpg


I cannot determine what that "thing" is beneath the bill; maybe it is a "Punk Bird" with a pierced lower mandible!

Colin

MichaelF
August 12th, 2009, 02:10 PM
Don't think it is a water droplet.

Brian S
Still looks OK for a water drop to me, the pattern of refraction is what you'd expect for a drop in that position.

Colin Key
August 12th, 2009, 02:20 PM
So if you set fire to it, it'll burn away with fierce white heat . . .

Oh, and don't spill any vinegar on it, or it'll dissolve :laugh:

I have to agree wholeheartedly with your "tongue in cheek" comments Michael. You would think that when optical products of this degree of sophistification are being discussed then the terminology would be correct (I presume that like me, you were a naughty lad who nicked yards of magnesium ribbon from the chemistry lab and set it alight for "entertainment purposes", in much the same way that we took slugs of pure potassium or sodium metal from the paraffin-filled jar and put them down the sink and then turned the tap on :ohdear:).

The metallic body of this new 'scope is a magnesium alloy (no details are ever revealed but I suspect it is a magnesium-aluminium alloy), presumably the same one used in top-end Pro camera bodies these days. I have just been to the Swaro website and note that it talks only of the new "Magnesium technology".

I also note that it states that the lenses are "Flouride-containing HD lenses" - utter bull...., which other manufacturers also use to hoodwink their customers. "Flourite" (calcium fluoride - CaF2) is a naturally occurring mineral which can be ground to create a lens of very low dispersion; it is not an an easy task since fluorite is very soft (hardness 4 on Moh's scale) and has perfect octagonal cleavage which means that the slightest knock and it break (cleaves) internally. This can be redressed by melting CaF2 and reducing its crystalline state to that of a glass (non-bonded ions of calcium and flourine) which does not cleave along planes of weakness. I think that the current method is to mix CaF2 with refined SiO2 (Quartz) to produce a hybrid glass of "high definition" and "low dispersion".

"Flouride" is what occurs in toothpaste and London's tap water :ohdear:.

Colin

MichaelF
August 12th, 2009, 04:14 PM
you were a naughty lad who nicked yards of magnesium ribbon from the chemistry lab ...Yep, been there, done that!

Someone I know had a fluorite lens crack in cold weather, the low temperature was enough to make it cleave. He got it replaced under the guarantee, but was "scopeless" for longer than he liked.

Maybe one of these ultra-rich birders could buy a couple of the scopes to obtain metal samples for analysis? Actually, I'll bet the other competing scope manufacturers are doing that right now.

Worth adding on the acid solubility point, that seabird poop is also corrosive enough to dissolve magnesium . . . don't take your new swaro scope to a seabird colony!:ohdear:

shearwater2002
August 12th, 2009, 07:00 PM
So did they give you a free one??..or at least heavily discounted??

Brian S
August 12th, 2009, 07:09 PM
So did they give you a free one??..or at least heavily discounted??

Hi Shearwater.

If this is directed at me (as reviewer), the answer is 'no', I still have my Kowa 883.

Brian S

Colin Key
August 12th, 2009, 08:42 PM
Agree with Jan, this is the bird's tongue:

http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/Passarinhos/comternworm.jpg

If it was "out" for a short time then that is not a problem, if it was permanently like this then the bird has a problem (swallowed fishing line, etc).

Colin

MichaelF
August 12th, 2009, 09:01 PM
Still a drop of water for me!

Colin Key
August 12th, 2009, 09:08 PM
Still a drop of water for me!

No way Michael - that is the bird's tongue (for whatever reason).

Colin :radar:

SzimiStyle
August 13th, 2009, 08:11 AM
Would be nice to read relevant info in this nice thread ;)
The droplet vs tongue issue doesn't seem to be relevant :P

I guess it is time to have another comparison test with the top player's just updated or released models. Can't wait to read one.

Szimi

Brian S
August 13th, 2009, 09:18 AM
Hi Szimi

In September Leica have agreed for me to review their new HD package, so I will post my review once I have it.

It will certainly be interesting to have seen the two new 'scopes so soon after each other.

Brian S

SzimiStyle
August 13th, 2009, 12:47 PM
Cool. Don't forget to put your KOWA in line ;)

Szimi

Colin Key
August 15th, 2009, 01:27 PM
The droplet vs tongue issue doesn't seem to be relevant :P


But, hypothetically, if an identical shot at the same magnification was taken with the new Leica HD and it clearly proved whether this was a water droplet or the bird's tongue, then that would have some relevance?

Colin :wink:

Brian S
October 6th, 2009, 05:21 PM
I have done rather a lot of seawatching recently, largely with the Swarovski HD and 25-50x eyepiece - the more I use it, the more impressed I become. Not only is the image incredibly bright and sharp (superb light transmission), compared with the Kowa 883 the wide angle is incredible and very helpful - it's rather like watching widescreen television compared with an old-fashioned one.

I can't help but think that the impressive numbers of rarer seabirds passing headlands, is partly down to the superb optics available nowadays. My first 'scope - a Swift Telemaster - would never have been good enough to find a strom-petrel at any range, let alone see if it was a Wilson's or a Madeiran.

I wonder how much better telescopes can get....

Brian S

SzimiStyle
October 6th, 2009, 05:30 PM
Really nice. I will have a try next month at our Wildgeese Festival. I am pretty sure Kowa is working on a wide angle eyepiece to catch competitors. ;)

Thanks for sharing this. As soon as money will not be an issue I will think about getting the Swaro HD again. :)

Regards, Szimi