Lesser or (Greater) Spotted Eagle?

[michael woodman-smith]

Earlier this year, at the end of May , I watched an eagle sp almost dead overhead, video attached. The bird appeared completely dark (into the light) with a widely fanned tail that was invisible at some points of the circle. It was a not a raptor known to me. Later on, I concluded that it might have been a Lesser Spotted or a Spotted Eagle. It was one of some 12 species I watched in an intensive 3 day period at the end of May there, including Bonelli's, Short-toed Eagles and all 3 Harriers. Not bad for a site only an hour's flight from Bristol! Other (mainly breeding) species seen in various trips late May/ early June include Great White Egret, (Spoonbill later in year), Night Heron, White Stork, Purple Heron, Black-winged Stilt, Avocet, Sacred Ibis, Bluethroat, Tawny Pipit, Bonelli's, Cetti's, & Melodious Warblers, Nightingales & Hoopoes (common), Redstarts, Long-eared Owl, Little and Kentish Plover.

On return to the UK, I reviewed my video clips and noticed a black raptor that was briefly captured on video nearby (the site was only about 1km away). I was videoing a Buzzard species which I was not satisfied was a CB (later seem hovering, but not a STE I don't think). I surmised that the black raptor may have been the same species that I had seen thermalling, but was clearly a different individual, as it had numerous feathers missing or damaged. A still from this video is attached: I hope you can open the file. Seems to work with Realplayer.

I submitted the attached record to the CHN (the French rarities committee): they concluded the birds were Common Buzzards, a species I see almost daily here in Clifton and also watched daily displaying over the Moeze Oleron reserve! I was astounded, but maybe such treatment is commonplace?

From my less than ideal material, would anyone familiar (or not) with the species care to express an opnion? I am intrigued that this species might migrate up the west coast of France via Gibraltar (there have been reports there in recent years): I have watched similar unidentified raptors in the nearby Brouage marais in previous years at this time of year.

As a PS, I am wishing to obtain a DSLR or HD video camera for the primary purpose of identification recording, as opposed to photograhic excellence. This means that portabilitity (must be always with me and easily used, ie not a Canon with a huge 500 lens) and cost is important. The video camera I used in France this year was not HD and had only a 10x zoom without digiscoping. The focussing was impossible without an eyepiece I am wondering about the Lumix G1 (or GH1) with a 45-200 lens (equiv to 90 -400mm) plus converter. Does anyone have experience of this set up?

[michael woodman-smith]

Sorry , the video and photo did not get attached.

[AndyB]

Hi Michael, well the video doesn't look like Common Buzzard although I'm not sure how a Common Buzzard might appear if a bird is missing part of its tail? Just for clarification, is the video still the same as the video posted here or is that of another bird and video?

In terms of your camera question, you can do a search on this forum for lumix G1 but here is a short thread that may help point the way:
http://surfbirds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4896

Best, Andy

[Harry Hussey]

Hi Michael,
I am sorry to say this, but I too would be inclined to think that these two birds are just Common Buzzards, or, at least, I find that I cannot exclude that species. I appreciate that these birds seemed 'large' to you in the field, but accurate judgements of size can be amazingly hard to make when one is confronted with birds against a featureless background.
The general structure alone just does not suggest an Aquila eagle to me, even one of the 'small' species like the spotted eagles, which I would expect to have much more 'fingered' wings (while the left hand bird is in poor condition with respect to its primaries, those undamaged feathers that can be seen look as though they do not form long enough 'fingers'), and also broader and more rectangular wings (especially when one considers Greater Spotted). Some plumage pattern can be made out on the underwing of the left hand bird: it seems to have pale bases to the primaries and secondaries with contrasting dark tips forming a trailing edge to the wing, a pattern which is incompatable with any plumage of any Aquila, yet is perfect for Common Buzzard...the fact that the tail also appears to have a dark subterminal band also suits this species, and even allows provisional ageing as an adult type (3cy+). The short tail is also more a feature of adult types, and these can look incredibly short-tailed when soaring at times.
The angle of the right hand bird makes plumage detail almost impossible to evaluate, but the wings, which appear to be in good condition, as well as the general proportions, are certainly nothing like those of an Aquila eagle, and also appear to suit Common Buzzard well. The bird is certainly of a similar size to the left hand bird, so, at a push, at this angle, it could be a Honey-buzzard or Goshawk, but, in my opinion, it looks better for Common Buzzard, it also seems to have a dark subterminal band on the tail.
It will be interesting to see what others have to say, but I think that the CHN made the right decision in this instance, unfortunately...sorry I couldn't have better news for you.
Regards,
Harry

[Colin Key]

I have read these posts a couple of times and am a little confused (old age, I guess!) - is the bird in the video one of the two birds in the still image?

Both birds in the still image look like moulting Common Buzzards to me, but the bird in the video clip looks (structurally) much more like a candidate for an Aquila sp.

I don't think that anything can be gleaned about plumage colouration from either the photo or video in images of this quality.

Colin

[Harry Hussey]

I can't get the video to work, though I assumed that the birds in the video were the birds in question.

[Colin Key]

I can't get the video to work, though I assumed that the birds in the video were the birds in question.

There is only one bird in the video Harry and it does not look like either of the two birds in the photo.

Colin

Edit: Just had another look at the video, and am thinking that this could even be a Black Vulture - certainly not one of the birds in the photo.

[michael woodman-smith]

Many thanks for your various comments. I am puzzled as to why anyone would consider the bird in the video to be a Buzzard of any kind. What key buzzard ID features does it show? For a start, CBs hold their wings fairly straight, and at a marked dihedral in the thermal turn. This bird circled with wings slightly cranked, the arm up and the hand level or down with long rear primaries twisted backwards (see photos). And CBs tails are of a moderate length, about 80% of the wing chord, well visible at all points of the turn unless level with the observer. This bird was almost directly overhead.

The principal sighting is the video. I am attaching here some stills from the video. The other sighting of the two birds shows a Buzzard sp (rh bird) and another bird which I did not recognise: I am pretty sure this was not a Buzzard of any kind, and I thought it might be the same species as the video, making a guest appearance as it were. I saw no other possible species in several days of intensive raptor watching. I saw as much of the other bird as you do: in my opinion not a buzzard, but what then?

Returning to the circling raptor, its most noticeable feature was the very short but broad tail. I had never seen anything like it. The tail seems to be slightly canted downward in this flight mode and is thus completely invisible at some points of the turn. If you look at the front cover of the Collins Birds of Prey (a Spotted Eagle), and imagine it at height so you cannot see the gap between tail and inner secondaries, the bird will appear very short tailed.

I can see why you might think a Black Vulture is a candidate based on plumage detail or rather lack of, but I think a Spotted Eagle would look completely black at height. After the bird left the thermal, its flight was remarkably agile and the wing beats not slow and majestic. I thought I might be watching a display flight, albeit at a distance. It did not seem to me I was watching a vulture, and certainly not such a massive bird.

My hypothesis was, and is, a Spotted Eagle; we now have Buzzard (sp) and Black Vulture as alterative suggestions. Does anyone have any other thoughts on the subject and does anyone else think it might have been a Spotted (or Lesser Spotted) Eagle? Would anyone likie to say why they don't think it was a Spotted Eagle (preferably someone who knows that species) or even why they do think it was a (C) Buzzard!

Spotted Eagles are occasionally but regularly seen in southern France (over wintering), Denmark, Switzerland, Poland and Sweden, usually juveniles in May and September. Lesser Spotted Eagles breed in Germany, Poland, Greece and Turkey. Large numbers are seen at the Boshorus (32,000 in 1988). The species is also migratory with some now travelling from sub Saharan Africa via Gibraltar I understand. I am intrigued that this might just be the species I observed: I intend to watch caerfully for the species next May when I will return to the Moeze Oleron and Brouage marais of Charente Maritime. Does anyone else visit the area regularly as I do?

[Harry Hussey]

Many thanks for your various comments. I am puzzled as to why anyone would consider the bird in the video to be a Buzzard of any kind. What key buzzard ID features does it show?

You misunderstand, nobody is claiming that the bird in the video is a buzzard species, or at least it's not obviously one if it is. I can't get the video to work on my computer, so, up to today, I was completely unaware as to the appearance of the bird in the footage, simply as I had never seen it...

The principal sighting is the video. I am attaching here some stills from the video. The other sighting of the two birds shows a Buzzard sp (rh bird) and another bird which I did not recognise: I am pretty sure this was not a Buzzard of any kind, and I thought it might be the same species as the video, making a guest appearance as it were. I saw no other possible species in several days of intensive raptor watching. I saw as much of the other bird as you do: in my opinion not a buzzard, but what then?

It is interesting that it is the right hand bird in the photo that you feel sure was a Common Buzzard, as, to my mind, while I agree that it does seem to be, there's even more evidence in favour of the left hand bird being a Common Buzzard also, and I have explained my reasoning for this opinion already in my first post above.

Returning to the circling raptor, its most noticeable feature was the very short but broad tail. I had never seen anything like it. The tail seems to be slightly canted downward in this flight mode and is thus completely invisible at some points of the turn. If you look at the front cover of the Collins Birds of Prey (a Spotted Eagle), and imagine it at height so you cannot see the gap between tail and inner secondaries, the bird will appear very short tailed.

I can see why you might think a Black Vulture is a candidate based on plumage detail or rather lack of, but I think a Spotted Eagle would look completely black at height. After the bird left the thermal, its flight was remarkably agile and the wing beats not slow and majestic. I thought I might be watching a display flight, albeit at a distance. It did not seem to me I was watching a vulture, and certainly not such a massive bird.

My hypothesis was, and is, a Spotted Eagle; we now have Buzzard (sp) and Black Vulture as alterative suggestions. Does anyone have any other thoughts on the subject and does anyone else think it might have been a Spotted (or Lesser Spotted) Eagle? Would anyone likie to say why they don't think it was a Spotted Eagle (preferably someone who knows that species) or even why they do think it was a (C) Buzzard!

Given that Spotted Eagle is a scarce, albeit regular, visitor to France, mainly in winter, and Lesser Spotted Eagle is a vagrant there, I would suggest that the onus is on one to prove that this bird was one of these species, not on anyone to say why they don't think it belonged to these species. That said, from these video stills alone, the bird seems distinctly odd in proportions for any Aquila eagle. I have only seen one certain Greater Spotted Eagle, but I have seen many Lesser Spotteds (and also a handful of Golden Eagles and a Spanish Imperial Eagle, but these are not relevant here), and this bird, if it were one of these species, would look very unusual indeed. Even taking into account the angle in some of the stills, the tail still looks too short, and the head doesn't seem as obvious as one would expect either, with the wings also being too narrow, perhaps. I find all manner of strange possibilities coming to mind, with species as distinctly different from each other as Osprey, escaped Bateleur, and even, yes, just a slightly odd-looking Common Buzzard (which it looks a bit long-winged for in some images, but matches the silhouette of that species very well in others) being at least as likely, if not more so, than any Aquila. As a result, I would still consider that the decision to reject the claim made by the French rarities committee was the right one, I am sorry to have to say it...I wish I could have had more positive news for you.

Spotted Eagles are occasionally but regularly seen in southern France (over wintering), Denmark, Switzerland, Poland and Sweden, usually juveniles in May and September. Lesser Spotted Eagles breed in Germany, Poland, Greece and Turkey. Large numbers are seen at the Boshorus (32,000 in 1988). The species is also migratory with some now travelling from sub Saharan Africa via Gibraltar I understand. I am intrigued that this might just be the species I observed: I intend to watch caerfully for the species next May when I will return to the Moeze Oleron and Brouage marais of Charente Maritime. Does anyone else visit the area regularly as I do?

While I can't fault your suggestion that Greater Spotted Eagle is regular in small numbers in France, I fail to see the relevance of 32,000 Lesser Spotted Eagles being counted at the Bosphorus to whether or not the bird in question could have been this species: some large counts of Honey-buzzard are made in Falsterbo, yet the species remains a true rarity here in Ireland! ;)
Seriously, when you are in the area next May, and see some raptor similar to this, try to compare it directly to a species of known identity, ascertain exactly the structure and proportions, note any patterns that may be visible etc, in addition to getting some pics, and it may be possible to be a bit more confident in identifying it on here.
Regards,
Harry

[appleton.dave]

The video grab seems like a red herring and the suggestion that it may include the same species that was in the video probably confused the ID of the bird in the video - I agree the video grab shows 2 Common Buzzards - I can't see any reason at all to think otherwise and really am struggling to see anything at all to suggest Spotted Eagle. Hence I expect CHN were surprised to receive this claim of a Spotted Eagle and they were certainly right to reject it.

The video itself is more interesting, if only as a lesson to anyone trying to identify birds from poor quality photos of video footage. Yes, in many frames the tail appears very short - even absent sometimes. But in other frames it doesn't seem especially short at all. As Michael alludes to in his notes, the variation in appearance can only be accounted for by the bird moving its tail up and down. Indeed, I think careful examination of the video confirms that there is some downward movement of the tail, and perhaps also some diagonal twisting. And therein lies the clue to what I think this bird is. Michael's notes draw attention to similarity to Black Kite in several places and I don't think that's a coincidence - I think it is a Black Kite. Apart from the lack of an obviously Kite-like tail I can't see anything in the video or Michael's notes (structure, jizz, plumage, behaviour) that is wrong for Black Kite.

So why does the tail not look obviously Kite-like? Well the video quality isn't good enough to be sure what the tail shape is exactly. In some frames it looks very round and in others the corners appear pointed. My guess is that it's not complete and hence looked unusual (and hence not immediately identified as a Black Kite by Michael). It wouldn't be the only time a Black Kite has been mistaken for an Eagle.

I don't claim to be 100% sure it's a Black Kite, given the quality of the footage. But I think that's the most likely ID and the CHN were absolutely right to reject this claim too. If you told me it was taken somewhere where Black Kites and Spotted Eagles were equally common I'd still say it was probably the former. Certainly doesn't resemble an Aquila sp. to me at all, not that I'm hugely experienced with the relevant members of the genus (do they ever "rocket around the sky" as Michael's notes describe this bird?).

[kevbirder]

The video just looks like Black Vulture to me. I've seen these in Spain though not recently.

[Colin Key]

The video just looks like Black Vulture to me. I've seen these in Spain though not recently.

On shape and structure this could be a Black (Monk) Vulture, but this species is colossal and really could not be mistaken for anything else when seen "in the field".

I cannot see this being a Black Kite, as Dave Appleton suggests, however "grotty" the tail of that species in moult might be.

I have found this one of the most confusing threads that I have ever contributed to!! :wideeyed:

Colin:smile: