Possible Asian House Martin in Israel

[Yoav]

Today a potential Asian House Martin was seen in northern Israel:
http://www.israbirding.com/israelbirdsforum/forum_entry.php?id=1191

In comparison to the 'funny' Northern House Martins we get here in Israel, this seems to be a good candidate for dasypus. See a review of those funny birds here:
http://www.israbirding.com/israelbirdsforum/forum_entry.php?id=1011

I am interested in opinions on today's bird, especially in relation to the possible 1st for Sweden seen in 2008.

[stenura]

In my view this could very well be a better candidate than the earlier records from Israel. However, with the variation in Common House Martin in mind, I would personally feel unsatisfied accepting an AHM without good description/photos of the facial pattern.

The Swedish bird was rejected during the RC-meeting last autumn.

Cheers
/Magnus

[LeeEvans]

I would totally agree with Magnus on this one but, as Yoav points out, the images are interesting and not clear cut. The lack of a long and deeply forked tail is significant though and I don't remember seeing a European House Martin with such a shallow fork. One also has to consider the possibility of House Martin Barn Swallow hybrids which are surprisingly frequent. Lagopoda has a similar tail pattern but has extensive white on the rump.

the key criteria of a juvenile Asian House Martin (dasypus) are the dark underwing-coverts and the much greyer-washed underparts, whilst the tail is strikingly less deeply forked. On an excellent view, the dark feathering on the throat of dasypus may be a good feature, with a strong contrast with the lower white underparts, although those birds captured in Kenya in winter buck this trend and make the job of separating the two a nightmare. Although these images do not reveal, it would be interesting to know the extent and patterning ofr white on the rump and uppertail-coverts - it is very restricted on Asian birds.

Magnus, what are the facial differences between the two? I remember something in the literature about extent of black on the lores and above the bill.

There are still arguments over whether or not the two are really separate species as birds with intermediate characters are still said to exist.

[RichB]

Yoav
Have you considered that this bird could perhaps be a Swallow x House Martin hybrid, perhaps explaining the more pronounced fork in the tail, and also the 'smaller and dirtier' rump patch may be explained by this too? Additionally, this may explain the throat colouration - is it just my monitor or are there suggestions of russet tones in the photo?

[stenura]

Magnus, what are the facial differences between the two? I remember something in the literature about extent of black on the lores and above the bill.

Yes Lee, the black runs farther below the lores in dasypus (at least in adult birds, not sure about 1:st cy). Some images available on Oriental Bird Images, for example this one: http://orientalbirdimages.org/images/data/asian_house_martin_ec.jpg

Please note that I don't mean to dismiss the Israeli bird, but for such an extreame (and difficult to clinch) record I personally would like hq-photos including the upper side of the bird before I would feel perfectly convinced.

Some interesting reading (not much on the id, but still valuable in other respects):
Stepanyan & Vasilchenko 1980, Bull. Mosk. Soc. Nat., Biol. Ser. 85(5): 41-44.

Regards
/Magnus

[Keith Vinicombe]

I don't know how relevant this will be to the above discussion but, on 20 January 2005, I was birding at a place called Quinto da Logo, near Faro, Portugal, when I picked up a strange hirundine at some distance feeding over some trees. It was difficult to follow but, through the telescope, it looked like a Cliff Swallow. Needless to say, I began to get quite excited! However, it was difficult to get any precise details on it so I ended up getting in the car and driving up to it, only to discover that it was a House Martin. It was very buff on both the rump and the underparts and it was feeding with two more conventional birds. Since then, Andy Davis has told me that he too has seen House Martins like this in southern Portugal in mid-winter and that this is the species' normal winter plumage, as shown by the Kenyan birds. Of course juveniles in autumn are much dingier on the rump but this full winter plumage doesn't seem to be widely known. (By the way, I have no comments to make on the Israeli bird - I'll leave that to others - but, for what it's worth, summer plumaged Asian House Martins that I saw in Hong Kong in April 1995 seemed smaller and more compact than House Martin with dark underwing coverts and a less obvious and less pure white rump).

[W. Ruskin Butterfield]

Other possibly irrelevant stuff:
Stepanyan & Vasilchenko, 1980, Bull. Mosk.
Soc. Nat., Biol. Ser. 85(5): 41-44. … it is said to report an
overlap between D. d. dasypus and D. u. lagopoda (Pallas, 1811) in the area S and SW of Lake Baikal.

Asian House-Martin, described as a new species for the fauna of the Soviet Union (Stepanyan, Vasilchenko, 1980).


Forktail 2002
New and significant bird records
from Buryatia, Russia
GRAHAM TEBB and ANDREAS RANNER

Observations of Northern House Martin Delichon urbica suggest that the taxonomic status of D. u. urbica and D. (u.) lagopoda merit further investigation

…the Asian Martin D. dasypus, is also found in the area but appears to be confined to rocky areas above the timberline, and thus separated ecologically (Stepanyan 1983, Dorzhiev 1997, Tebb and Ranner in press). J. Haffer (in Glutz von Blotzheim and Bauer
1985) and C. S. Roselaar (in Cramp 1988) both cited Sushkin (in Hartert 1910) as saying that forms intermediate between D. urbica urbica and D. urbica lagopoda have been reported from the Yenisey basin. Stepanyan (1990) also reported that the two forms
intergrade, although without giving details of his source. In fact, Sushkin wrote exactly the opposite, claiming that the two forms occur in close proximity without any evidence of interbreeding. His statement concurs with our observations in Buryatia. We believe the distinction between D. urbica urbica and D. (urbica) lagopoda merits further investigation.

http://www.orientalbirdclub.org/publications/forktail/18pdfs/Tebb-Buryatia.pdf .

…the lagopoda subspecies of Northern (the only subspecies likely to occur in South Korea) is considered by e.g. Robson (2000) to be "very similar" to Asian House Martin
http://www.birdskorea.org/Birds/Significant_Records/New_Birds/BK-NB-Northern-House-Martin.shtml .

CHELIDON DASYPUS. (BLACK-CHINNED MARTIN.), Bonaparte, Consp. Generutn Avium, i. p. 343 (1850).
The Black-chinned Martin has a much less forked tail than the European House-Martin; and the black on the head descends farther below the eye to the upper part of the ear-coverts and the base of the chin.
Figures : Swinhoe, Ibis, 1874, pl. 7. fig. 1.
http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/35141#183 .

http://books.google.com/books?id=RfQZAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA91&lpg=PA91&dq=Chelidon+dasypus&source=bl&ots=ZXo0LmfCps&sig=dPiQ3pQ9idrHstZ3DWsJXlMzqhs&hl=en&ei=12UES62fDIKwsgOS8ZSYBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CBwQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=Chelidon%20dasypus&f=false .

[Harry Hussey]

Hi all,
In the first image, the underwing coverts on the left wing seem as though they may not actually have been all that much darker, if at all, than the remiges. I can't say for sure whether or not this is the case, but, if it is, then that would not be good for an ID as Asian House Martin. Otherwise, I agree with Magnus insomuch as further detail would presumably be a prerequisite for a firm claim of dasypus.
Regards,
Harry

[macrourus]

In such light I can ahrdly see how would be 100% safe and possible to rely on underwing true colour and pattern...what its interesting there its that it seems to there be a pale comma over the primary base for whcih i can't find a reason...

In any case, I found Asian HM to have actually duskier underparts but indeed not the throat that actually stand out much more as a aple patch being cleaner and paler than breast... so far this is what i noticed but never has studied deeply this issue...may be I'm wrong.

I've seen several hybrids type in Italy (and even an hybrid Red-rumped Swallow x House Martin in Monfrague, Spain last August!) and they looks quite similar...with dusky throat and other characters...

The tail fork could however looks as deep as this bird in HM too.... no problem for that!

All in all, i guess we need much much better photos before accept a very rare record like that :-(

Ciao
A
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[Brian S]

Andrea

My experience is similar to yours.

In November 2008 I was in central eastern India, watching a flock of hirundines - largely Red-rumped Swallows and Northern House Martins. As we watched, two 'house martins' appeared which seemed smaller, with very dark underwings, but also a sullied body contrasting with white throat. As they turned the rump patch seemed smaller, though we weren't sure if this was just an artefact of the fact it was duller than on the other house martins.

Aware of the problems and that Asian House Martin was unlikely, we tentatively identified them as Asian. After some research I felt more confident - see next post....

Brian S

[Brian S]

Check out these greatly helpful images from Hong Kong in November
http://www.hkbws.org.hk/BBS/viewthread.php?tid=9527&extra=page%3D1
The white throat contrasting with sullied body (almost streaked), indistinct breast band (certainly there seems to be a peg from the front of the wings, a la Black Tern), dingy flanks, black underwing coverts, dark on under tail coverts as well as upper tail coverts.

Even these from March show a subtle breast band, darker wash along the flanks and dark centres to the undertail coverts (but not the vent). http://www.hkbws.org.hk/BBS/viewthread.php?tid=1757&extra=page%3D2

Brian S

[Paul Leader]

Separation of Northern and Asian House Martins is straightforward on good views.

This posting is actually quite timely from my point of view: I found the first Northern House Martin for Hong Kong yesterday, which has been well seen and photographed. It was present with about ten Asian House Martins, of two subspecies.

The following apply:

Structure
Asian is tiny compared to Northern, overall length being about 80% of Northern and clearly smaller body size. The tail is clearly shorter which results in Asian looking far more compact. The tail fork difference is obvious (except when dealing with moulting birds), with Asian having a very shallow tail fork which reasults in the tail appearing square when slightly spread. It is worth noting that the Northern in HK was of the taxon lagopoda, which has a more shallow tail fork than nominate, yet the fork depth difference was always obvious.

Rump
The rump patch on Asian is small and rather square looking (beacaue more of the longer uppertail coverts are balck that in Northern HM), and often sullied grey, especially in the southern taxon nigrimentalis. It seems that northern birds (i.e. nominate dasypus) have a cleaner, whiter rump than southern birds and are more similar in rump colour to Northern. The rump patch on the HK bird was massive compared to the Asians present, such that the bird could be picked out on naked eye views. However, as this bird was of the taxon lagopoda in which all the upper tail coverts are white, this difference would be less obvious in a western European context. However, I still think the rump size difference would be obvious.

Underparts

The underparts of Asian are very dusky grey, except for the throat which is contrastingly white. This obvious in the field. Nominate dasypus is probably darker below than southern birds although the literature is contradictory on this issue and this needs more research. However, the gleaming white underparts of the HK Northern was strikingly different to the underparts of the Asians present.

Underwing coverts
These are always black(ish) on Asian, and are darker than the rest of the underwing. On Northern (on eastern birds at least) the underwing coverts are grayish or brownish and show little if any contrast with the rest on the underwing. However, in dull conditions the underwing coverts of the Northern at times looked darker than the rest of the underwing, so this feature should be used carefully. However, in good light the uniform grey underwing and underwing coverts was obvious (especially on photos).

In this context I have a question, what colour are the underwing coverts of Northern in the west of its range? The Collins Guide shows them as white, but photos on the web show anything from whitish to grey.
The head pattern differences are very difficult to see in the field, but on close views Northern looks capped, whereas Asian looks a little bit hooded.

[macrourus]

Very good and helpiong posts Brain and Paul...
so I was not wrong in my impression of the underparts pattern... :-):laugh:

Regarding the tail fork: I was talking in fact about European HM, they could show a deep frok to tail sometimes, cheifly on photgraphs... also hybrid have similarly forked tail, but mostly longer outermost rectrices with an higher gap between this and the next one...



Regarding underwings: I've seen in Sicily also dusky underwing to HM, mostly on juveniles...Also, in winter, they get a duller underwing due to greish tips to coverts... winter plumage being least known as in wintering ground observations of HM are pretty rare... and people who has seen that, as reported by Keith, say they looks all duller. Also, in Eastern Europe I've seen more duskier underwing birds than in Northern Europe... also duller head, throats, and in general the plumage! a clinal gradient in colour of HM? or simply I've seen HM in S Europe and Middle East and E Europe later than in N Europe?

nice and thanks


Andrea
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