interesting Gull from Spain

[DLVelasco]

Hi,
What´s most probably the same gull seen in Madrid (Spain) last winter that created a lot of debate, also in this forum (with some birders saying it could be californicus, but with some of us saying it was either an aberrant lusitanicus YLg or, most likely, a hybrid common/Ring Billed x YLG/Herring/LBB) was seen last week at the same spot.
You can see some pics here:

http://madrid-gull-team.blogspot.com/

With these photos, it becomes more clear now that the bird has to be one of the hybrids mentioned above, most probably Ring billed x LBBg due to wing colour, head streaking and bill pattern.

The hybrid option, with one of the parents being a three-year gull, either Common or Ring-billed, would also explain the "fast" moult of this gull compared to the plumage from last November (if the bird is indeed the same as last year)
what do you think??
Comments welcome

Daniel L. Velasco

[MichaelF]

Sorry, I can't read Spanish, and I'm not sure which of the numerous gulls on that page is the one in question - can you add a direct link to the photo (or embed it in this forum), please?

[DLVelasco]

Hi,
Here are the pics of the bird.

Dani

[birdertrev]

:lovegulls:

Couldn't find a tumbleweed smilie !!

I have never known such a wall of silence on this forum !!

Trev

[Alex Lees]

:lovegulls:

Couldn't find a tumbleweed smilie !!

I have never known such a wall of silence on this forum !!

Trev

Someone should email P. Andre, he's good with mysterious gulls.

On a marginally more serious note, for those that can't remember that far back - this was the original discussion:

http://www.surfbirds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4393

[LeeEvans]

Dani

Nice photographs and fully agree with your synopsis - certainly seems to have traits of two different species - and certainly has the bill shape and patterning of a Ring-billed Gull as it has grown up. Unlikely pairing though but who knows?

This summer, an adult Ring-billed Gull from Dingwall in Highland Scotland paired up with a Common Gull and took up territory and this is no doubt happening with some frequency elsewhere in the Western Palearctic. This is to be expected though as the two species are somewhat closely related. Whether or not a Ring-billed or Common Gull would pair up with a larger white-headed gull though is unknown and perhaps a lot less likely.

All the very best

Lee

[Alex Lees]

Whether or not a Ring-billed or Common Gull would pair up with a larger white-headed gull though is unknown and perhaps a lot less likely.

All the very best

Lee

per 'Handbook of avian hybrids of the world' (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=iZhKTNkpxUIC&pg=PT82&dq=avian+hybrids+ring-billed#v=onepage&q=avian%20hybrids%20ring-billed&f=false)there are cases of hybridisation between Ring-billed Gull and: Kelp Gull (!), California Gull, Mew Gull, Franklin's Gull, Laughing Gull, Franklin's Gull and Black-headed Gull and between Common Gull and: Ring-billed Gull, Lesser Black-backed Gull, Iceland Gull, Kamchatka Gull, Med Gull and Black-headed Gull!

If you read the rest of the species accounts, then a diagnostic conclusion without using invasive techniques seems rather unlikely!

cheers

[Alcedo atthis]

Dani

Nice photographs and fully agree with your synopsis - certainly seems to have traits of two different species - and certainly has the bill shape and patterning of a Ring-billed Gull as it has grown up. Unlikely pairing though but who knows?

This summer, an adult Ring-billed Gull from Dingwall in Highland Scotland paired up with a Common Gull and took up territory and this is no doubt happening with some frequency elsewhere in the Western Palearctic. This is to be expected though as the two species are somewhat closely related. Whether or not a Ring-billed or Common Gull would pair up with a larger white-headed gull though is unknown and perhaps a lot less likely.

All the very best

Lee

Some years ago there was a series of photos from Iceland of an adult bird with a smallish bill (considering bills of large white-headed gulls)without red spot on lower mandible, very dark grey wings and mantle , slightly smaller than lesser blackbacked gull but bigger than common gull.

I think at the gallery where I saw it this bird was considered to be canus x fuscus.

I tried to find the pictures and that specific gallery of icelandic birds and finally succeeded, here they are:

http://myndir.fuglar.is/pictures.php?type=t&id=1084

what do you think about that one?

[Fernando Arce]

Hi Dani, How are you doing?

Great pics, i've rencently watch on my mail, (both the last year and current ones).

I think the best match is RB * LBB, but, obviously, cannot exclude Common *LBB.

By the way, i think i can remember a bird from Asturias id as canus * fuscus, but I never seen the pics. If there are (I guess Pablo watch the bird), it could be useful to compare, but, RG is IMHO, the best mach.

did you get some feedback from Killian, Klaus etc.....?

anyway it's such a pretty gull!

Hope to see you

Fernando

[Josh Jones]

there are cases of hybridisation between Ring-billed Gull and: Kelp Gull (!)

I wonder which way round the sexes of it's parents were because that sounds potentially rather grim..!

J