redstart sp - Israel 2004

[James P. Smith]

Hi folks,

I'm interested in seeking opinion on a female-type redstart that digi-scoped in Israel, March 2004. I didn't identify it to species at the time and I'm still struggling with it now. I'd be really interested to see what you guys make of it and to know if it can be sub-specifically identified? There's a mix of shots at this link;http://pioneerbirding.blogspot.com/2009/11/israel-puzzling-redstart-march-19th.html Thanks very much for any comments you can offer.

Best birding,

James

[adriaens]

Perhaps I am oversimplifying things, but the extensively pale throat, with clear demarcation of a dark malar stripe leaves me little doubt that this is a Common Redstart. I doubt that it can be identified up to subspecies level.

[Brian S]

I think Peter is right about this, and having examined the skins at Tring thoroughly, am not confident in identifying females to form - in my opinion there seems to be a fair amount of overlap in features of female phoenicurus and samamisicus. There may be a general trait for samamisicus to be a touch paler and greyish sandy above, with a slight wing panel and underparts that are pale (relatively colourless) and with a suggestion of a smudgy/mottled breast area. However, there appears to be some nominate the same.

I saw a bird like yours at Southwold in October 2002, which spurred me on to check skins, but I left pretty nonplussed by it all. I met Hadoram Shirihai one day (he was reseraching for his book with Lars Svensson), who seemed a touch more positive about the identification process (but he may have changed his mind over time, of course).

Brian S

[LeeEvans]

Hi James

Hope you are well. I tend to agree with Peter and Brian with this bird - I cannot see anything about it that does not suggest a female-type COMMON REDSTART although of course it is very pale and washed-out.

Female Eversmann's Redstarts have distinct pale edgings to the tertials and obvious whitish fringes to the coverts forming bold wingbars.

As for Ehrenberg's Redstart, I find both males and females so variable, particularly on migration in Israel and Kuwait, that the presence or not of the paler fringes to the wing coverts is immaterial and only claim adult males which are clearly definitive. I also struggled with samamiscus identification in Turkey, where this form is said to be the only form present, with many birds completely lacking the features associated, such as the pale fringes on the secondaries. Judging the differencies in the shade of grey upperparts is also very difficult.

[James P. Smith]

Greetings all,

I'm very grateful for the comments on this redstart. In some respects it's comforting to know that it can't be identified to sub-species. It may have been a complete mental block on my part but I was genuinely thrown by the blue-gray cast to the upperparts on this bird which seemed at odds with most female-type redstarts that I see in Israel in spring. Those birds generally have a browner aspect to upperparts tone. However, I certainly wasn't pushing for a major rarity here and only mentioned Eversmann's in passing with reference to the sole Israeli record. Anyhow, if it's that obvious to you guys....then I'll leave it there.

Again, thanks so much for viewing the images and for offering comments.


Best birding,


James