Black or Variable Wheatear in Israel

[Yoav]

This (http://nubijar.blogspot.com/2010/01/nothing-i-enjoy-more-than-dipping-on.html) interesting bird was seen by one lucky observer yesterday in N Israel (and dipped by myself :cry:).
Comments are welcome.

[Giroud Marc]

I saw two white feather above the eyes of the bird, so I don't think that is a Black Wheatear, most probably Variable Wheatear, no ? I have little experience of the Black and no experience for Variable...

[Motmot]

Have you eliminated the possibility it could be a dark morph (Basalt) Mourning W.? Looks too delicate (bill, legs) for a Black W. to me.

Cheers
Eduardo

[macrourus]

Eduardo arrived while I was writing its seems to me to be a Basalt...

bill shape wrong for leucura, also jiizz, also tail etc....

whtite tips to secondary and tertaisl point to picata opistoleuca and the Basalt morph Mourning.... I would be happy to see rump in flight or open wings .... tail projection seems to favour Basalt...however, without having seen the bird in flyght I would not be sure myself of this nice bird!

Andrea
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[Brian S]

An additional negative feature for Black is the long primary projection. I immediately noted this and checked images to confirm: it is too long on the Israel bird; Black is shorter http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures/birds_uploaded/2950_Soergestenpikker01BIG.jpg

Brian S

[Brian S]

Images of opistholeuca - isthe primary extension too long even for Variable?

http://orientalbirdimages.org/birdimages.php?p=14&action=birdspecies&Bird_ID=2585&Bird_Family_ID=205&pagesize=1

http://orientalbirdimages.org/birdimages.php?p=16&action=birdspecies&Bird_ID=2585&Bird_Family_ID=205&pagesize=1

http://orientalbirdimages.org/birdimages.php?p=19&action=birdspecies&Bird_ID=2585&Bird_Family_ID=205&pagesize=1

http://orientalbirdimages.org/birdimages.php?p=23&action=birdspecies&Bird_ID=2585&Bird_Family_ID=205&pagesize=1

Brian S

[Steve Fletcher]

Heres another showing Black Wheatear features

[Howard King]

I am not certain its either Variable or Basalt but more likely a 1/2cy White Crowned Black wheatear - reminds of birds I have seen here - however would love to see a picture of the rump if availiable

[Tommy Frandsen]

Hi try this link
http://www.tapuz.co.il/forums/main/Viewmsg.asp?forum=1002&msgid=137864684

The photos are the red tekst.

[CAU]

The very long primary projection fits White-crowned Black Wheatear best. Also Basalt Wheatear (which Yoav did indeed consider, but people apparently didn't read the text) would have at least on average a clearly shorter primary projection. The biggest problem is of course the tail pattern, which doesn't seem to fit White-crowned Black Wheatear. Svensson, however, implies in his passerine guide that some immature White-crowned Black Wheatears may have a tail pattern close to Black Wheatear. The bill is perhaps on the weak side for White-crowned Black Wheatear, but the bird looks pretty large headed in the second picture. From the original photos it is perhaps possible to count the emarginations on the primaries (especially if they are raw format, the jpg compression has destroyed a lot of detail in the dark areas), three on Basalt Wheatear and four on Black and Variable (don't know how many on White-crowned Black).

Edit: This Basalt Wheatear (the mounted specimen) shows a pretty long primary projection:
http://www.andrewsi.freeserve.co.uk/article-wheatear.htm

Edit 2: Added an enlargement of the third picture, which shows only three apparent primary emarginations (this would favour Basalt Wheatear), but due to the quality of the picture, it's probably far from conclusive.

[Howard King]

Wheatears here often stay for long periods Yoav I would check the area again some rear OR wing shots even bad ones could resolve the question of ID

[macrourus]

Indeed I read Yoav' account...of course...but yet I consider Basalt as the best option... and this does not exclude I read the account... but only that Basalt was my best guess! And it seems CAU was finally also the one fitting more your analisy.
White-crowned: I see tens every year in Tunisia where I go since 1999 twice per year studing birds there...NEVER seen any showing leucura -like pattern, just a few with a bith more black on tail but still irregulararly distributed over rectroces... never a solid reverse T mark as on leucura and other Oenanthe...including Basalt and our mysteri bird I guess form photos.

The best would be to find back the bird (it is there for winter for sure so....) and check upper rump white extension and in flyght charcters

Very nice case Yoav, thanks very much

your friend

Andrea
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[macrourus]

And the wing pattern, its sometimes surprisingly hard to see in the field in Mourning, even more in bird like this with bleached wings (that's why the brownish tinge Yoav say) and even more in Basalt....

A White-crowned would show more upright stance, longer stronger legs, longer and more decurved bill, heavier for sure ( not almost Black-neked Greebe like as on Moruning and on our bird), longer tail, wider white area on underparts reaching further up in front of the legs...
However, in phtoos, the position of the white to legs could change with different body posture; the tail lenght its better visible in the field then in photos; the bill could be shown but a very small male for ex; the stance its variable in photos and should be considered in prolonged field obs.

So, what we have objective rather than variable and subjective: almost nothing but the emargination ...but hard to be sure! And the tail pattern - but I would change opinion and being more open and ready to say I'm confused if anybody found for me a White-crowned with T on tail which i missed to see till now (but NATURE its always surprising and confusing...:beer: As opposite, the seems to be there whitish spekling around eye would fitt better WHC though in most cases we would find some toher spekling on crown or nape... and I do not know if Basalt or opistoleuca may show this feauture...

Well, that's all I can say ... now up please re-find the bird Yoav


(PS/NB: not all Europe its bloody raining and wet...Sicily could be 30 C? in these days and I was swimming in December, after having seen some nice birds) :ohdear::beer:
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[Howard King]

Here is a few pictures of two Mourning Wheatears from here taken just this last weekend - I know they are not a black..en but they are good for general comparison for what we colloquially call jizz - including a distant individual to illustrate overall shape posture stance etc. For the subject bird we must also remember its mid winter and most probably from an eastern population ssp - to me it does not ring any bells for a Mourning.

[CAU]

White-crowned: I see tens every year in Tunisia where I go since 1999 twice per year studing birds there...NEVER seen any showing leucura -like pattern, just a few with a bith more black on tail but still irregulararly distributed over rectroces... never a solid reverse T mark as on leucura and other Oenanthe...including Basalt and our mysteri bird I guess form photos.


You're probably right. This is the exect quote from the Black Wheatear account of the passerine guide (translated from Finnish by me):
"The outer rectrices are never extensively white, which separates the species from almost all imm. Oe. leucopyga"
So Svensson only implies that some immature White-crowned Black Wheatears do perhaps not have extensively white outer rectrices, there's no mention of the exact pattern.

-14C° here...

[Yoav]

Guys,

Thanks a lot for all your feedback.

Quite a few birders searched for the bird today but no sign of it. Weather still pretty bad, but we're expecting a sunny weekend, so there is still some hope the bird will be re-found.

I uploaded (http://nubijar.blogspot.com/2010/01/more-images-of-wheatear.html)some more images better showing the rump and wing structure.

I still believe it's not a basalt - the observer saw the bird in flight and it had totally dark wings. I asked him over the phone to look for that in the field, so he certainly paid attention to that. unfortunately no flight images.

Yoav.

[macrourus]

The white on rump seems to reach up close to the base of the smallest tertials... this fit more Basalt even if several opistoleuca show similar charater... We need museum check for that and all the other stuff....
However, I do not know the observer but Yoav seem to trust him a lote, therefore I would say the wing pattern has been checked well and we are left then only with Eastern Pied W. as Yoav rightly reported!

I think it is interesting to go to TRING or other well furnished museum to check out this. Also, i wonder, does anybody ever has done DNA of Basalt ?

Some info at :


http://www.andrewsi.freeserve.co.uk/article-wheatear.htm


And this bird, that seems to show barely any pale shade on wings:

www.israbirding.com/irdc/bulletins/bulletin_3/



Thanks for this interesting discussion Yoav

I love Oenanthe sp.
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[macrourus]

Sorry, I'm getting totally insane, mad, crazy with this bird and this taxa (Basalt vs. opistoleuca vs. variations vs. leucophyga....)...

I found in Netflug some shot of black birds from Masada, Israel and from Jordan of birds captioned as Mourning Wheatear...One show several white or pale speckles over forehead, upper eye ring, etc... So, this is not possibly a real feature just for White-crowned... may be, some Bsalt may show some white speckles reminiscent of the usual morph??? We simply know very week and sp.... notions about this population (whatever it is: a morph? WHY? a taxon? a race? a good species??) ....

Or, the bird shown in netflug are indeed 1st y White-crowned with therefore the odd T black pattern on tail ??

Regarding the pale tips to PC mentioned by Yoav...well, I found them much more common in Eastern POied rather than on Basalt....

having by now surfed the web for 2 days checking one by one all the photos I've found, I've seen these pale tips in far more O.picata than presumed Basalt...

Just one loud voice in my mind: MUSEUUUUMMMMM skin cheking :certifiable::realmad:



http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=listpictures&species_id=618
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[Yoav]

Wow, what is this bird in Netfugl?
I'd love to see an image of the open tail and wing. The jizz gives me the impression of a White-crowned.
If it is a basalt indeed, it is a pity as this 'form' is a great rarity in Israel (two previous records 1994 & 2003).
Andrea, any chance you can contact this Italian birder?

[Brian S]

Yoav

I was at the Natural History Museum, Tring, today, and spent a bit of time comparing the specimens of opistholeuca and the two specimens of 'Basalt Wheatear'. It was most enlightening - some things I noted:

One of the Basalts is a first-summer and therefore lacks the whiter inner webs to the primaries of an adult - check the age of your bird.

Overall, opistholeuca is a glossier blue-black compared with the matt or smokey (brown-) black of Basalt/black lugens.

The extent of white on the rump is identical, virtually.

The tail pattern is, again, pretty similar; both have prominent white tips to the rectrices (a touch more on lugens); on opistholeuca the black extended from the tip up the outer web a touch more strongly than on lugens.

Basalt has clear white tips to the (squared-off) secondaries - almost straight lines across the tips; on opistholeuca these are very fine and greyish, not as clear-cut as on black lugens. However, note the hwite on this opistholeuca http://orientalbirdimages.org/birdimages.php?p=23&action=birdspecies&Bird_ID=2585&Bird_Family_ID=205&pagesize=1

The rear flanks of opistholeuca has more white than on black lugens, with some feathers showing white tips.

Primary projection is slightly longer on lugens (always hard to tell accurately on specimens): av. 24mm on opistholeuca; 26.5mm on the two black lugens. Wings measure/average about the same, c.92mm on opistholeuca; 92.5mm on the two black lugens (lower than the average given for lugens in BWP). Tails averaged c.68mm on opistholeuca; 62mm on the two black lugens. So there is an appearance of a shorter primary projection on opistholeuca and longer on black lugens. There are very subtle differences in the primary spacings, but not huge: p5 is stepped back from the tip a touch more on the lugens (2.5mm against 1mm on the opistholeuca I checked); there’s a 6mm gap between p5 and p6 on the lugens (4.5mm on opistholeuca); the p6-p7 is 7mm on lugens and 5.5mm on opistholeuca.

For the moment, I will let others apply these, but I feel I can see fairly prominent white tips to the secondaries; the primary spacing looks interesting and assessable on at least one of your new images. If you PM me with your e-mail, I can send some of the images I took at Tring.

Brian S

[Brian S]

Interestingly, these images of Basalt Wheatear (I assume as they are taken at As Safawi) show more white on the flanks than on the specimens I examined, so it may be variable - and matches Yoav's Israel bird.

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=2615

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=2614

Brian

[macrourus]

Brian,

did you went through also 1st y White-.crowned ? To check tail pattern variability ?

Would be a great argument for a paper on magazine...

Great work Brian and thanks for that !
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[Brian S]

Brian,

did you went through also 1st y White-.crowned ? To check tail pattern variability ?

Would be a great argument for a paper on magazine...

Great work Brian and thanks for that !

No, sorry, too busy.

Brian S

[Brian S]

These links may have been posted before, but the Ian Andrews ID paper is interesting - http://www.andrewsi.freeserve.co.uk/article-wheatear.htm

Israel 2001 - http://www.israbirding.com/irdc/bulletins/bulletin_3/ - note on this bird the less obvious white in the wing, and given the browner remiges and obvious white tips to the p.covs (which match the 2cy bird at Tring), this is a younger bird.

Tim Melling in Jordan - http://www.flickr.com/photos/timmelling/3772104295/sizes/l/

Brian S

[Howard King]

Yoav - what is the period of occurance with you for the various species mentioned thus far.