Phylloscopus ID from Italy

[heuglini]

Dear all!

here in Italy we are getting very puzzled by a misterious warbler. It is clearly a humei/inornatus, but wich one?
Many features point to YBW but call and sonograms point to Hume's.
Here you can hear the call

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPkPDVAwV0w

and I have attached the only available pics and a sonogram.

thanks
Michele Viganò
Italy

[stenura]

Hi!
In my eyes and ears this is a good and firm humei. The call seem to be of the more inflected (upwards) variant, and in it's structure it could be interpreted as quite similar to inornatus. In a sonogram it more or less looks like a "V". However, with (some) experience this humei-call is recognized by being slightly shorter and is being delivered at a little bit lower frequency compared to inornatus. I have attached such a call recorded in Sweden (Öland) last autumn.

Photos of this species pair are often hard to judge, but despite the rather broad pale tips to the med.coverts, I belive also the photos favour humei. Rather grey above (and importantly so in the crown), some buffish hues in face/superscilium, rather pale tertials etc. Pale base to bill is no big issue, and the colour of the legs is often hard to catch in photos due to light and the birds position relative to the camera.

In my view: humei.

/Magnus Hellström

[Brian S]

And I agree with Magnus. The call is typical of the many Hume's I hear in India in winter; the images may well be exaggerating the yellow hues a bit, but they still fit well with Hume's to me.

Brian S

[Sherpa]

This bird is a real education to me. So many of the features on the photographs look like inornatus. I had no idea that the pale base to the bill counld be so easily dismissed. Even the call sounds rather inornatus like, although listening carefully I would agree with Brian.

[heuglini]

Thank you for the answers! My personal opinion is the same.
Do you know of any YBW with strange calls? I've heard a great variation within the calls of humei but no or very little varition from inornatus.
In other words: do you consider the call to be diagnostic?

thank you again!
Michele

[forktail]

in terms of being diagnostic,

humei have a call shorter than 0.3s while inornatus averages around 0.3s (or at least was in the study I read, I can't be sure how reliable it was though).

humei have a call that only exceptionally reaches 6 KHz whilst inornatus has a call that is only exceptionally lower that 7 KHz.

otherwise, humei are much more variable than inornatus and some calls can be quite similar and could be tricky if you're posed with a calling bird on the English east coast but if it doesn't sound like a typical sweee-eeest inornatus, I'd pursue it.

The yellow on the bill isn't so unusual for a humei though.

[stenura]

Like Forktail said, the call varies a lot within humei, but usually less so in inornatus. There may perhaps be a risk for confusion between the two species when less inspired calls are given (short, straighter and more discreet sounds, perhaps more reminecent of a weak Chiffchaff), but when a well inspired bird gives the call heard in the Italian recording, I really don't think there is any actual risk of confusion. The call in this case is a strong evidence of humei (in my view sufficient for an acceptance in the up-coming RC assessment), and combined with the images (that in them selves favour humei) I believe you have a good, solid, case.

Cheers
/Magnus

[heuglini]

Thank you again very much for your point of view Forktail and Magnus!

best wishes, see you next phyll ; )
Michele

[Calandrella]

Dear all!

here in Italy we are getting very puzzled by a misterious warbler. It is clearly a humei/inornatus, but wich one?
Many features point to YBW but call and sonograms point to Hume's.
Here you can hear the call

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPkPDVAwV0w

and I have attached the only available pics and a sonogram.

thanks
Michele Viganò
Italy

Hi Michele,
I attached a mp3 file of the same bird recorded with an instrumentation quality (Sony PCM M10 and Telinga PRO DAT Mic). Also enclose a spectrogram of part of this call.
As you know, the habitat of Palazzolo (Brescia - Italy) is very noise, so quality in not very high.
I hope this help!
Hello!
Marco Pesente

[heuglini]

Thank you Marco!
your spectogram is very didactic: some humei can reach a quite high frequency (just less than 7 kHz) but still is visible a more classic note (about 6 kHz) with the typical down inflection on the second note wich is, in my experience, diagnostic of humei.

thank you again
Michele

PS perchè ci stiamo scrivendo in inglese?! : )

[Calandrella]

Thank you Marco!
your spectogram is very didactic: some humei can reach a quite high frequency (just less than 7 kHz) but still is visible a more classic note (about 6 kHz) with the typical down inflection on the second note wich is, in my experience, diagnostic of humei.

thank you again
Michele

PS perchè ci stiamo scrivendo in inglese?! : )

You're right, Michael, why are we writing in English???:smile::smile:
Hai ragione, Michele: perché ci stiamo scrivendo in Inglese???:smile::smile:
Ciao!!!

[Giroud Marc]

An interesting site maybe : http://www.warbler.phytoconsult.nl/humei.htm

Close to inornatus for me...