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Shrike from Kuwait

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  • Shrike from Kuwait

    Amongst Rashed's many excellent images is this labelled as 'Isabelline Shrike' taken on Sept 2nd - http://www.flickr.com/photos/rashed11112/4951721395/ .

    Any comments on its ID?

    Brian S

  • #2
    If this is a Brown Shrike, as I suspect, will it be the first record for Kuwait?

    Brian S

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    • #3
      Brian, just had a quick look at this Kuwait shrike. Would this not be a RED-BACKED SHRIKE? Very reminiscent of the Scilly Brown Shrike.

      Best wishes

      Lee

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      • #4
        I have the same feeling as Lee, but it's a difficult bird. The bird lacks peachy hues below, and the outer vane of p6 looks rather whitish. I'd expect a cristatus in this light/angle to show a whiter supercilium and perhaps less juvenile body feathers. Tertials looks dark (commonly seen in cristatus, uncommonly in collurio). Wing/tail ratio and wingformula rather hard to judge in these images. Same goes for tail shape.

        More images would probably be helpful.

        Edit: sorry, meant t6 (not p6).
        Last edited by stenura; October 1st, 2010, 10:00 PM.

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        • #5
          Note that there is a small twig covering some of the birds back making it look paler and more uniform than it (probably) is. I would go for Red-backed as well...

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          • #6
            As Magnus mention - a perhaps not so straightforward collurio and might indeed be a cristatus. Wing formula is, unfortunately, not seen well enough, it shows, however, a long primary projection with at least 6 visible primaries beyond the tertials (p8-3). Even if the tail might look rather long - the long primary projection doesn´t create the combined ratio see in cristatus The pale lore suggest collurio but the bill looks a triffle big for that species.

            Another pic Rashed?

            JanJ

            http://www.surfbirds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5832
            Last edited by JanJ; October 1st, 2010, 10:02 PM.

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            • #7
              Tail pattern seems to favour cristatus though (although similar collurio is sometimes seen). I understand Brians suspicions, but images from different angles would be useful.

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              • #8
                I have no experience with Brown Shrike but had I seen this myself I would I am sure put it down as Red-backed. The bird is standing tall unlike many illustrations that show birds squat on their haunches making I feel the scolloping more prominent than is normally seen.
                Bahrain Birding - more than just a blog
                http://www.hawar-islands.com/blog/index.php

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                • #9
                  Might have been to fast to discharge it as Red-backed. As Jan and Magnus states the bill is rather large and tertials and tail pattern fits Brown well. I am not certain about the tail-length though. Regarding the primary projection it does look very long. This may be seen on Brown Shrike - at least the angle may at times fool you on this (se the Staines Moor bird: http://netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=sh...cture_id=30299), but Rasheeds shot shouldn't give such problems.
                  When I enlarged the image I got the feel of a slight curve on the outer tail - but a "feel" don't really cut it - but more photos probably would?
                  Wonder if Rasheed is reading all of this?

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                  • #10
                    "Wonder if Rasheed is reading all of this?"

                    I have mailed him asking for more pic.

                    JanJ

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                    • #11
                      Well done, Jan...

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                      • #12
                        I mentioned this photo to Lars Svensson a couple of days ago. His 'best estimate' was Brown Shrike, though adding that this identification was open to debate. When contacting him my own feeling was that there were evident collurio features i.e. (a) the wing-point looks long and (b) the pale 'margin' to the tail surely defines the outer web of the outermost tail-feather, in which case it seems too long for Brown (the individual tail-feathers are arguably rather broad for Brown). Against this is the tertial pattern (as noted by Lars) and also that the mantle is already largely plain, which would be unusual in a 1cy collurio as early as Sept 2nd. So, an intriguing individual.


                        [Incidentally, there are other interesting photos on 'Rashed's' site. See:

                        http://www.flickr.com/photos/rashed11112/4951734679/

                        for a karelini type, and

                        http://www.flickr.com/photos/rashed11112/4967627053/

                        for an adult Turkestan (phoenicuroides) with a well-defined peachy wash over the entire underparts. This shows that Turkestan doesn't always have relatively white underparts. Although an individual shrike may well significantly change the hue of its underparts between 1W and adult plumage, it's interesting to speculate what the underparts of this individual would have looked like in 1W plumage. 'Rashed' photographs 'interesting' Isabelline Shrikes with some regularity in Kuwait, including hybrids. This tends to suggest that such 'non-standard' individuals and hybrids are more common than is sometimes suggested.]

                        regards, Alan

                        P.S. See http://orientalbirdimages.org/birdim...198&pagesize=1
                        for a useful comparative photo of a Brown Shrike with similar basic appearance to the Kuwaiti bird. Can we draw any reliable conclusions about comparative primary projection and tail shape?
                        Last edited by ARD; October 2nd, 2010, 05:38 PM. Reason: Useful comparative photo

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                        • #13
                          The darkness of the tertials (and probably to a certain degree the primary tips?), might possibly be a shadow effect (difficult to judge fron certain photos), hence the obvious contrast to the primaries, it would be more of the opposite or equal in Collurio. At least one would perhaps expect darker primaries on the folded wing in cristatus

                          http://www.tarsiger.com/gallery/inde...22188&lang=eng

                          http://www.tarsiger.com/gallery/inde...16096&lang=eng

                          http://www.tarsiger.com/gallery/inde...48431&lang=eng

                          Note the long wing point as mentioned before and pale lore.

                          This one looks rather similar but spot the mentioned features (taken in China unfortunately with no date)

                          http://www.pbase.com/johanstenlund/image/87398346

                          JanJ

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                          • #14
                            The only other pic of the subject shrike Rashed had was this one: (thanks for that R!

                            http://al-mamoon.smugmug.com/Animals...03_cm9oZ-O.jpg

                            Note the broad t-feathers.

                            JanJ

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                            • #15
                              The tail in the additional photo surely indicates collurio. No sign of short outermost tail-feather and tail itself is also relatively short. As already noted by JanJ there are 6 primary tips visible beyond tertials in the original image, on a relatively long primary projection. (While it's very much subject to posture and admittedly a *very* rough-and-ready measure, most photos of Brown Shrike show a distance from tip of wing to tip of tail which is of the same order as the distance from tip of wing to the 'shoulder', while in most images of collurio tip of wing to tip of tail is very significantly shorter than distance from tip of wing to the 'shoulder'. In the Kuwaiti bird it's significantly shorter.)

                              regards, Alan
                              Last edited by ARD; October 2nd, 2010, 08:31 PM.

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