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Thread: Temminck's Stint in Alaska

  1. #21
    Moderator Brian S's Avatar
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    Having started the thread, I want to make it clear I am not questioning the integrity of Scott Schuette, the photographer. It was an interesting picture, on which I was struggling a bit, and still am, to see the features by which it is Temminck's.

    The features that struck me, were the split super, the breast band that seemed to be quite streaked, the white lower face, and the lack of an eye-ring. Obviously, I can see the black feathers on the brown-grey upperparts (mantle and lower scapulars), which certainly look like Temminck's - on Temminck's the lower row of scaps often have large pale areas near the base - which might just be visible. However, I still can't see the white eye-ring; the lower face on Temminck's is often well-steaked (the 'face' can seem a bit browner sometimes), but here it seems contrastingly white below the ear coverts.

    See
    http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?i...icture_id=4638

    http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?i...icture_id=3348

    http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?i...icture_id=2963

    http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?i...cture_id=22781


    I suspect that Scott is thinking it was an obvious Temminck's in the field....

    Brian S
    Last edited by Brian S; July 10th, 2009 at 03:24 PM. Reason: links not working

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanJ View Post
    I see a Temminck´s Stint. Reasons for that is the yellowish legs, overall jizz, drawn out rear, parttern of scapulars and breast.
    Regarding the split super, see the right bird here:

    http://www.tarsiger.com/gallery/inde...10547&lang=eng

    JanJ
    Jan,

    It is not possible at all to say anything about the colour of this bird's legs. They are in shadow, the photo is very poor quality, and there is the possibility of mud contamination.

    To speak about "jizz" on a static photo I find very curious (as I have stated before in other threads). "Jizz" (general impression of shape and size) CANNOT be determined from a photo, especially a very poor one - you need to see the bird in its environment, how it moves, size relative to other birds or features, etc. JIZZ is not a static phenomenon.

    The link which you provide regarding the split supercillium shows a bird with no super at all!!

    Colin

  3. #23
    Senior Member forktail's Avatar
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    Colin,

    We're just doing the best that we can with the pics available and even with poor pics a little considered study can be illuminating and working together members of this forum often arrive at a very good concensus of an identification.

    I, and obviously others, do seem to be able to see a yellowish cast to the legs, hence people's thoughts of Least, LTS and Temms.

    I also have the opinion, again I suspect it is shared by many, that jizz can be apparent in photographs.

    The bird in Jan's photos does show a weak split super (it looks like there isn't one due to its colour but there is an obvious line of darker feathers going through).

    I'm sure we can agree that the bird's outer tail is (reasonably clearly) white?

    F.
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  4. #24
    Senior Member JanJ's Avatar
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    Okey Colin - you have a point.

    I know that the image is not one of the best but I diceded to make a quick suggestion and as you say, 'jizz' is not so good a choice. Could therefore structer be a more appealing choice, not that I suggest this as a final identification point. I also find the shape of the breast - with the Common Sand wedge like pattern quite obvious. Plain grey scapulars with as it appears thin dark shaft all the way up to the base, wider at the base in Least, admixed with worn breeding ones - dare I suggest.
    What do you mean by 'no supersilium at all'?

    JanJ

  5. #25
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    Default Temminck's

    I re-looked at the flickr photos and viewed them at the "large size "and saw a new image that Scott had posted which threw a whole new light on my thinking.

    Based on this, I am happy now, along with the aforementioned posters that the bird is indeed a Temminck's Stint, not a Least Sandpiper as I had previously thought.

    In the scaled up versions the bird does seem to show a thin white eyering and other features are more visible that make the bird look much better for Temminck's than I had first thought from the original small images.

    As Forktail points out the tail sides are white, though I had not put too much weight on the image since it looked a little overexposed.

    Best,

    J

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by forktail View Post
    Colin,

    We're just doing the best that we can with the pics available and even with poor pics a little considered study can be illuminating and working together members of this forum often arrive at a very good concensus of an identification.

    I, and obviously others, do seem to be able to see a yellowish cast to the legs, hence people's thoughts of Least, LTS and Temms.

    I also have the opinion, again I suspect it is shared by many, that jizz can be apparent in photographs.

    The bird in Jan's photos does show a weak split super (it looks like there isn't one due to its colour but there is an obvious line of darker feathers going through).

    I'm sure we can agree that the bird's outer tail is (reasonably clearly) white?

    F.
    Hello FT,

    I am not trying to be awkward in any way (would I ) and I am the first to admit that my knowledge of N American birds is next to zero, although I am always interested in contentious Temmink's since they can be very difficult even from reasonably good images.

    My interest in this thread is really in what people are seeing, or claiming to see, in distant, poor quality photos taken in what appears to be bad light; we can't always be certain that relevant I.D. criteria are being portrayed accurately in those circumstances.

    Has anyone made direct contact with the photographer (his email address is given) and asked for his first-hand impressions as to why this is Temmink's?

    Cheers,

    Colin

  7. #27
    Senior Member JanJ's Avatar
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    Hi Colin.

    You are of course right in that judging from certain photos, even some good ones, is very difficult and unwise but a photo is all we have! (that´s what I keep saying in various forums myself!), so no doubt about that. I think that most birders involved in these matters can´t have missed out on that one. In spite of that it´s done over and over again, we birders is trapped in the urge to identify anything we see (sometime even in really poor photos, where you have to struggle to even spot the bird!), it´s like a disease Clearly a prestigious race at times when a bad or not so good photo is comming along of a suspected rarity or of some odd plumaged species, quite a natural human behaviour, you just have to control yourself - a bit.
    As I said earlier, I decided to make a quick one because I had a clear Temminck´s feel to this one - not saying that I´m right (not such a good image ) - just setting some of you out there more on the move.

    JanJ
    Last edited by JanJ; July 10th, 2009 at 03:39 PM.

  8. #28
    Moderator Brian S's Avatar
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    In my OP I asked, 'Does anyone else have concerns about the image of 'Temminck's Stint' taken by Scott Schuette on the NA stop press? Or am I going mad?'

    Well we have gone full circle, agreed it is Temminck's Stint, so the last question needs answering....

    Brian S

  9. #29
    Senior Member Alex Lees's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian S View Post
    In my OP I asked, 'Does anyone else have concerns about the image of 'Temminck's Stint' taken by Scott Schuette on the NA stop press? Or am I going mad?'

    Well we have gone full circle, agreed it is Temminck's Stint, so the last question needs answering....

    Brian S
    Hi Brian

    Here might be a good place to start....

    Alex
    Dept. of Zoology, University of Cambridge, UK

    My website - Neotropical Bird Club -Tropical Forest Research - Punkbirder - Wikiaves

    In natural science the principles of truth ought to be confirmed by observation. — Carolus Linnaeus

  10. #30
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    Brilliant link Alex; the second one down on the list has me a bit worried!!

    Colin

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