That Scilly Shrike

Hirundo · October 28th, 2008, 07:48 AM

Thanks to Robin Mawer for posting the shots on Stop Press because earlier shots have now been removed. Could be good to post some more shots on the forum if photographers don't want to post on galleries.

Uniform upperparts (perhaps not right tone for Brown?), primary projection not a pro for Brown but doesn't rule it out? Appears to have pale lores which is more pro for Red-backed. Looks a bit Red-backedish in these two photos but maybe not as simple as we'd like and shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water?

1st-winter Brown Shrike, Bryher, Scilly, 24th Sept' 2001 © Marcus Lawson

Brown Shrike?, Isles of Scilly, St. Mary's 27.10.08, Robin Mawer

Nice ID article
http://www.birdskorea.org/Birds/Iden...n-Shrike.shtml

Red-backed Shrike in Korea
http://www.birdskorea.org/Birds/Sign...-2004-09.shtml

Links to more photos of Scilly bird by Marcus Lawson and some ID notes by birding luminaries
http://www.surfbirds.com/Features/sc...-Ortolan-27999

Martin · October 29th, 2008, 07:21 AM

Yes well done Robin for posting these images. And a great shame the other images were removed. Although I have to say I happened to chance across them on the Monday night before they were removed by the contributors and immediately pulled out various ID articles (including Birding World) because I was baffled as to why this was being called a Brown Shrike. Especially as I had just been watching the Wouldham Red-backed Shrike which was more or less identical. For a moment I thought that perhaps the longer tail length, shorter primary extension, uniform upperparts and overall jizz were not as obvious in a 1st winter Brown Shrike as I had been led to think, but on re-reading the articles they just convinced me further that there must have been a mass Scilly halucination. But before I could bang off some e-mails to others, news came through that the bird had been re-identified as a Red-backed Shrike... presumably from those same images on the web (!).

So nice as another Brown Shrike on Scilly would be, I don't this bird is it.

best

Martin

stenura · October 29th, 2008, 08:58 AM

Are there any more images available? In this single image some pro-cristatus charachters are visable (eg. dark tertials with pale-buff edges reaching the base, the narrow tail lacking dark subterminal bars, rather brown nape). Some pro-collurio is shown as well, and despite the true identity I think this is a rather interesting individual. More photos would be most welcome!

Cheers
/Magnus

CAU · October 29th, 2008, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stenura

Are there any more images available? In this single image some pro-cristatus charachters are visable (eg. dark tertials with pale-buff edges reaching the base, the narrow tail lacking dark subterminal bars, rather brown nape). Some pro-collurio is shown as well, and despite the true identity I think this is a rather interesting individual. More photos would be most welcome!

Cheers
/Magnus

These photos should be of the same bird:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/41349641@N00/?saved=1

You can see that that the tail feathers actually have subterminal bars at least on the underside. Moreover, the upperside appears to be completely barred/vermiculated and the back and nape look much more rufous than in the picture in post #1. The outermost tail feathers are quite short and the tertials and remiges have rather white edges, but otherwise it looks very much like a Red-backed Shrike (at least to me).

Marcus · October 29th, 2008, 11:09 AM

More photos here too: http://www.rarebirdalert.co.uk/RealD..._ImageList.asp

stenura · October 29th, 2008, 11:53 AM

Thanks a lot!!! Very interesting individual! I admit that vermiculation, faint greish nape and the overall impression (large body, long wings, not very long tail) seem to favour collurio, but I can't recall that I've ever seen a collurio getting so close to cristatus (tertials, tail shape/pattern). Thanks again!
/Magnus

CAU · October 29th, 2008, 12:34 PM

Recently the first ever Red-backed Shrike for Hong Kong was found. It seemed to also have quite pale tertial edges (at least in some photos) and apparently lacked subterminal bars on the tail feathers (click "Next" for more photos):
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search...ID=&pagesize=1

Giroud Marc · October 29th, 2008, 03:04 PM

Other interesting link about interesting shrikes : http://www.tommypedersen.com/UAE-Shrikes_ID.htm

For me the bird of Scilly, is most probably a Red-Backed Shrike...

LeeEvans · October 30th, 2008, 04:39 PM

Shortly after Robin Mawer uploaded his single image on to Surfbirds, I was alerted by Stuart Piner to have a look at it. I did so immediately and said to Stuart that I thought it was a juvenile Red-backed Shrike; he too had come to that conclusion. Knowing full well who had been responsible for its identification (Adam Hutt, Keith Vinicombe, etc), I was reluctant to comment publicly without seeing further images, and so requested that Robin and Dick Filby supply further images revealing the full suite of plumage.

At 1400 hours of that second day, I phoned John McLoughlin who I knew was on Scilly and he talked through with me what he had seen on the bird. His description left me in no doubt that he had seen a juvenile Red-backed Shrike and I stated to him the reasons why I believed this. Shortly later, I telephoned the new Scilly county recorder (Chris Langsdon) and told him of my concerns and stated that I should have to correct the identification later that day. He replied by saying that over 200 birders had seen it, that it was particularly striking and that, despite some reservations, Brown Shrike was the favoured option.

I then decided to phone Keith Vinicombe, who I knew was instrumental in identifying the bird as a Brown Shrike, and discussed the bird with him, reiterating all of the features that I felt was wrong with the bird. Keith listened intently. At the same time, more images arrived in of the bird, showing the bird in meticulous glory - it was an obvious juvenile Red-backed Shrike in these new shots - and RBA duly revised their message.

What made me question Robin's bird initially was the long primary extension of the Borough Farm juvenile, with 7 visible tips beyond the tertials (Brown Shrike can occasionally show 6 - like Marcus's Bryher bird - but more often shows 4-5) and not only that, the stepping between them, particularly the longer feathers. Coupled with this the fairly restricted mask, a lack of real warmth to the crown and the heavily barred mantle, quickly ruled it out. Furthermore, the tail was all wrong and although long in appearance, did not have Brown's diagnostic and characteristic graduated appearance (it was largely square-cut but with shorter outer feathers). The bill was not short and stubby enough either and the general tones of the upperparts were not brown enough.

Quite why it attains such striking Isabelline Shrike-like upperwing pattern is unknown though

MichaelF · October 30th, 2008, 05:12 PM

There's a place in the middle of Asia (~ 52°N 90°E) where the breeding ranges of Red-backed, Brown and Isabelline meet, and is given by Lefranc & Worfolk (Shrikes) as a hybridisation zone . . . maybe this one is from somewhere around there??

;-)

October 29th, 2008, 07:21 AM	#2
Martin Moderator Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 47	Red-backed or Brown Shrike Yes well done Robin for posting these images. And a great shame the other images were removed. Although I have to say I happened to chance across them on the Monday night before they were removed by the contributors and immediately pulled out various ID articles (including Birding World) because I was baffled as to why this was being called a Brown Shrike. Especially as I had just been watching the Wouldham Red-backed Shrike which was more or less identical. For a moment I thought that perhaps the longer tail length, shorter primary extension, uniform upperparts and overall jizz were not as obvious in a 1st winter Brown Shrike as I had been led to think, but on re-reading the articles they just convinced me further that there must have been a mass Scilly halucination. But before I could bang off some e-mails to others, news came through that the bird had been re-identified as a Red-backed Shrike... presumably from those same images on the web (!). So nice as another Brown Shrike on Scilly would be, I don't this bird is it. best Martin

October 30th, 2008, 04:39 PM	#9
LeeEvans Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Little Chalfont Posts: 113	Brown Shrike misidentified on Scilly Shortly after Robin Mawer uploaded his single image on to Surfbirds, I was alerted by Stuart Piner to have a look at it. I did so immediately and said to Stuart that I thought it was a juvenile Red-backed Shrike; he too had come to that conclusion. Knowing full well who had been responsible for its identification (Adam Hutt, Keith Vinicombe, etc), I was reluctant to comment publicly without seeing further images, and so requested that Robin and Dick Filby supply further images revealing the full suite of plumage. At 1400 hours of that second day, I phoned John McLoughlin who I knew was on Scilly and he talked through with me what he had seen on the bird. His description left me in no doubt that he had seen a juvenile Red-backed Shrike and I stated to him the reasons why I believed this. Shortly later, I telephoned the new Scilly county recorder (Chris Langsdon) and told him of my concerns and stated that I should have to correct the identification later that day. He replied by saying that over 200 birders had seen it, that it was particularly striking and that, despite some reservations, Brown Shrike was the favoured option. I then decided to phone Keith Vinicombe, who I knew was instrumental in identifying the bird as a Brown Shrike, and discussed the bird with him, reiterating all of the features that I felt was wrong with the bird. Keith listened intently. At the same time, more images arrived in of the bird, showing the bird in meticulous glory - it was an obvious juvenile Red-backed Shrike in these new shots - and RBA duly revised their message. What made me question Robin's bird initially was the long primary extension of the Borough Farm juvenile, with 7 visible tips beyond the tertials (Brown Shrike can occasionally show 6 - like Marcus's Bryher bird - but more often shows 4-5) and not only that, the stepping between them, particularly the longer feathers. Coupled with this the fairly restricted mask, a lack of real warmth to the crown and the heavily barred mantle, quickly ruled it out. Furthermore, the tail was all wrong and although long in appearance, did not have Brown's diagnostic and characteristic graduated appearance (it was largely square-cut but with shorter outer feathers). The bill was not short and stubby enough either and the general tones of the upperparts were not brown enough. Quite why it attains such striking Isabelline Shrike-like upperwing pattern is unknown though

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October 28th, 2008, 07:48 AM	#1
Hirundo Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 68	That Scilly Shrike Thanks to Robin Mawer for posting the shots on Stop Press because earlier shots have now been removed. Could be good to post some more shots on the forum if photographers don't want to post on galleries. Uniform upperparts (perhaps not right tone for Brown?), primary projection not a pro for Brown but doesn't rule it out? Appears to have pale lores which is more pro for Red-backed. Looks a bit Red-backedish in these two photos but maybe not as simple as we'd like and shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water? 1st-winter Brown Shrike, Bryher, Scilly, 24th Sept' 2001 © Marcus Lawson Brown Shrike?, Isles of Scilly, St. Mary's 27.10.08, Robin Mawer Nice ID article http://www.birdskorea.org/Birds/Iden...n-Shrike.shtml Red-backed Shrike in Korea http://www.birdskorea.org/Birds/Sign...-2004-09.shtml Links to more photos of Scilly bird by Marcus Lawson and some ID notes by birding luminaries http://www.surfbirds.com/Features/sc...-Ortolan-27999 Last edited by Hirundo; October 28th, 2008 at 07:53 AM..

October 29th, 2008, 08:58 AM	#3
stenura Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 42	Are there any more images available? In this single image some pro-cristatus charachters are visable (eg. dark tertials with pale-buff edges reaching the base, the narrow tail lacking dark subterminal bars, rather brown nape). Some pro-collurio is shown as well, and despite the true identity I think this is a rather interesting individual. More photos would be most welcome! Cheers /Magnus

October 29th, 2008, 11:09 AM	#5
Marcus Junior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 29	More photos here too: http://www.rarebirdalert.co.uk/RealD..._ImageList.asp

October 29th, 2008, 11:53 AM	#6
stenura Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 42	Thanks a lot!!! Very interesting individual! I admit that vermiculation, faint greish nape and the overall impression (large body, long wings, not very long tail) seem to favour collurio, but I can't recall that I've ever seen a collurio getting so close to cristatus (tertials, tail shape/pattern). Thanks again! /Magnus

October 29th, 2008, 12:34 PM	#7
CAU Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 56	Recently the first ever Red-backed Shrike for Hong Kong was found. It seemed to also have quite pale tertial edges (at least in some photos) and apparently lacked subterminal bars on the tail feathers (click "Next" for more photos): http://orientalbirdimages.org/search...ID=&pagesize=1

October 29th, 2008, 03:04 PM	#8
Giroud Marc Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 19	Other interesting link about interesting shrikes : http://www.tommypedersen.com/UAE-Shrikes_ID.htm For me the bird of Scilly, is most probably a Red-Backed Shrike...

October 30th, 2008, 05:12 PM	#10
MichaelF Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 1,045	There's a place in the middle of Asia (~ 52°N 90°E) where the breeding ranges of Red-backed, Brown and Isabelline meet, and is given by Lefranc & Worfolk (Shrikes) as a hybridisation zone . . . maybe this one is from somewhere around there?? ;-)